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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
08-26-2010, 08:16 PM
I would be cool with the complete removal of SNB when they remove green diapers... and give shield resists the same diminishing returns resists on hull have.

I am cool with not allowing escorts to use SNB as long as Attack Pattern Alpha is removed from anything non escort.... When Rotate Shield, Nadion Inversion, and M Worker are also removed from escorts.

If you didn't notice I'm being silly.... your ideas are bad ones. Adapt and learn to win. SNB is usable ONCE every TWO min... you can counter it with Science Team 1. If you don't have ANYTHING ready to save your backside when I strip your RSP, your fault. Have a nice day SNB Ya in game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
08-26-2010, 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalnar
1. Tbh, i wouldnt touch SNB, is the only thing which makes those 2x RSP using players fear something. There is not that many sci captains, compared to the green blobs you instantly see if you FAW in middle of fedball.

2. Aux to Dampeners protects agains it, maybe not agains the first one, but its hard to suprise a good player for a second time. The usability of this ability is somewhat predictable. Most good cruiser captains do use the ability anyway, as it helps with turning alot.

3. I dont mind the fleet support feature, but i remember a typhoon spawned ship killed me, when players could not. 30k crit was unexpected. You can also always run away abit, same like from photonic fleet, and it despawns. Only fools stays and tanks it all. Ep-E+ Evasive to 10km range and either your enemy will follow you,or you head somewhere else.

4. Rather Not, i would prefer to be killed by a skilled player, not by every looser suiciding in middle of enemeies
5. HELL NO !
Perfectly reflects my views on this topic. Thanks Dalnar... saved me some time!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
08-26-2010, 11:29 PM
There appears to be misconeptions, as usual.


With SNB, I'm saying it shouldn't work with Escorts. It's cheap.

People argue that Science doesn't have the performance than a Tactical, and that is a lie. They have access to many abilities like Rapid Fire 2, and BOs with Level 3 abilities like Scatter Volley 3 and Beam Overload 3, and Omega 3.

So what if they dont have Pattern Alpha, with SNB they can strip away a player's buffs and kill just as fast without it.



With Photonic Shockwave, I have a problem with an AOE Debuffer. Just have a Science fly in the middle of a Fed ball, blast one out and presto, multiple targets ripe for the picking by Escorts. I guarantee if this instead was an AoE SNB, people would be in an uproar.


Fleet Support: We don't need NPCs with 40k to 300k HPs tanking in PvP. Plain and Simple. They don't poof like Photonic Fleet, they stay there for a long time and can dish our some serious firepower. Especially if you get the Battleships or the Dreadnaughts.


And Ramming: All they had to do was put it back on a 5 minute timer, thats it. I rather they remove the restrictions, period. If you happen to kill with it, then grats to you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
08-26-2010, 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
There appears to be misconeptions, as usual.


With SNB, I'm saying it shouldn't work with Escorts. It's cheap.

People argue that Science doesn't have the performance than a Tactical, and that is a lie. They have access to many abilities like Rapid Fire 2, and BOs with Level 3 abilities like Scatter Volley 3 and Beam Overload 3, and Omega 3.

So what if they dont have Pattern Alpha, with SNB they can strip away a player's buffs and kill just as fast without it.
And what you give them instead ? you just magically remove one of their captains ability ? and give them nothing to compensate ?

Why not take away rotate shield frequency from cruisers, because they are already very hard to kill ? And they have access to EP-S III, 2x RSP and other goodies ?

Your "logic" is once again, not logical. And obviously as usual biased against something, you have difficulties to deal with,
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
08-27-2010, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
There appears to be misconeptions, as usual.


With SNB, I'm saying it shouldn't work with Escorts. It's cheap.

People argue that Science doesn't have the performance than a Tactical, and that is a lie. They have access to many abilities like Rapid Fire 2, and BOs with Level 3 abilities like Scatter Volley 3 and Beam Overload 3, and Omega 3.

So what if they dont have Pattern Alpha, with SNB they can strip away a player's buffs and kill just as fast without it.
Which is why you shouldn't put up all your buffs at once, and why teams need to cross-heal. If a DPS cruiser or two would spare you a HE or Aux to SIF when you get your buffs stripped you wouldn't even need to defend yourself. After all, if you're the focus target they don't need their heals for themselves.

Quote:
With Photonic Shockwave, I have a problem with an AOE Debuffer. Just have a Science fly in the middle of a Fed ball, blast one out and presto, multiple targets ripe for the picking by Escorts. I guarantee if this instead was an AoE SNB, people would be in an uproar.
Heal over time, keep resists up, or play with others who will heal you.

You are a cruiser skipper, any problem to which the solutions are either "heal" or "tank" should not be problems for you.

I still don't have problems with that power unless it's combined with focus fire. But living though focus fire shouldn't be easy.


Quote:
Fleet Support: We don't need NPCs with 40k to 300k HPs tanking in PvP. Plain and Simple. They don't poof like Photonic Fleet, they stay there for a long time and can dish our some serious firepower. Especially if you get the Battleships or the Dreadnaughts.
They fight like NPCs and blow up like NPCs. I don't see what the issue is, especially since everyone gets them. You can't rely on them too heavily because dropping to 50% health without dropping to 0% is not a guarantee. You're an admiral, you command a fleet.

Quote:
And Ramming: All they had to do was put it back on a 5 minute timer, thats it. I rather they remove the restrictions, period. If you happen to kill with it, then grats to you.
I do wish Ramming were a little easier to use, but that's because I mostly use cruisers. I had great fun on my Klingon teaming up with another cruiser or two to simultaneously ram all of a fed team's escorts. With BOL hitting the shields first and HYT launched mid-charge so the impact after your ship does it was not uncommon to "one-shot" escorts that way. It was silly and imbalanced, but fun.

Ramming benefits cruisers a lot more than anyone else, so I understand why it's limited.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
08-27-2010, 12:42 AM
I personally would like to see a speed cap in place for PVP, or a boost to TB so it can't be ignored so easily (Add huge hull dmg to target when moving it is away at full impulse speeds or something, but not so that using APO/PH + normal speeds/turning would triggle it)

It gets old fast when everyone just runs away when low on health (not so much in C&H though, because killing isn't the point) every single time someone fires at them. A few PVP matches I have had pretty much any of the ppl you shot at legging it at 50~70% Hull (Seems more popular with klinks/escorts). Especially with there being almost 0 counters, the only one being a lucky TES/phaser proc to disable their engines.



Also, is PSW really that bad? From my experience it's just a 2~3sec stun and mild pushback with a tiny radius, TBR is way more annoying as a pushback, and Trico mines have that stupid 10s full-stun even if they explode near you.

Oh and no to Ablative Hull Armor nerf in PvP, the things already unreliable. It takes too long to deploy, can't recharge shields with it up at all, can't shoot energy weapons, can fail at any point (think this is due to aux disabling phaser procs, annoying when you deploy it and it more or less instantly goes on a 5min timer). Sure it's nice when you finally deploy it and you have a Hull heal ready, but you'll probably die upon exit anyway due to low shields.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
08-27-2010, 01:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Enignite View Post
I personally would like to see a speed cap in place for PVP, or a boost to TB so it can't be ignored so easily (Add huge hull dmg to target when moving it is away at full impulse speeds or something, but not so that using APO/PH + normal speeds/turning would triggle it)

It gets old fast when everyone just runs away when low on health (not so much in C&H though, because killing isn't the point) every single time someone fires at them. A few PVP matches I have had pretty much any of the ppl you shot at legging it at 50~70% Hull (Seems more popular with klinks/escorts). Especially with there being almost 0 counters, the only one being a lucky TES/phaser proc to disable their engines.



Also, is PSW really that bad? From my experience it's just a 2~3sec stun and mild pushback with a tiny radius, TBR is way more annoying as a pushback, and Trico mines have that stupid 10s full-stun even if they explode near you.

Oh and no to Ablative Hull Armor nerf in PvP, the things already unreliable. It takes too long to deploy, can't recharge shields with it up at all, can't shoot energy weapons, can fail at any point (think this is due to aux disabling phaser procs, annoying when you deploy it and it more or less instantly goes on a 5min timer). Sure it's nice when you finally deploy it and you have a Hull heal ready, but you'll probably die upon exit anyway due to low shields.
Erm, you realize that is the only thing keeping escorts alive (bar team heals)?

In my escort/Raptor I dont have the options for shield or hull healing both Sci or Cruiser have.

How many HE, ST and TSS is it you can fit on a Sciencevessel? How many ET/EP2Ss on a cruiser? How many RSPs? What is it the tick on a fully souped HE III is, 1100+? How is it again those A2SIF works?

How many devastating Science powers is it exactly those Scienceships have?

At best a escort/Raptor have 3 Ensign and 2 LT slots.. One of these go to RSP for those emergency situations where you *absolutely* have to use it (I prefer to use this "skill" as little as possible, *always* after my opponent popped one of his own), one goes for polarize hull (if you like me use AP:B over AP:O) and one (for me) goes for MES on the Escort. That means you will usually have 1 low shieldheal (Usually EP2S1) and 1 low hullheal (usually HE1)

Now factor in that they have far less shield and hull than Cruisers and Escorts..

But hey, I guess youd rather Escort captains were forced to play their ships to your liking, than learn to counter them :/
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-27-2010, 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
What is it the tick on a fully souped HE III is, 1100+?
Hazard emitters II - 1200+ thick ... ~ 22K heal
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
08-27-2010, 02:20 AM
If you have your personal healing slave, PH is probably better choice (or rather more efficient one), if you are on your own, HE. For escort i mean.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
08-27-2010, 02:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nu-NRG
Hazard emitters II - 1200+ thick ... ~ 22K heal
Did they improve this?

I seem to remember around 1200ish when I last messed around with it.

Hi Ten btw.. My escort misses you :p
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