Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
08-27-2010, 10:31 AM
there are no plans doesn't mean they will not appear.

and i don't mean they are Teir 6 more like a teir 5 1/2 . Imagine they let you become a VA and you get something that is on par with the older ships you have, i am sure alot of you will complain.

I am not saying they are right in making the excelsior more powerful that the sovereign , Man i love the sovereign! But i believe that if you fit the AC properly and maybe change your fighting style the AC still can beat the Excelsior refit!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42 what the hell?
08-27-2010, 10:56 AM
Wha??? you starting this bs in another place? The one you started in the cruiser folder that you got shot down in fairly fast is not good enough for you? In the cruiser section folks handing you your backside cause you give no proof of your claim, its just your "feeling" and here you start another one?

Oh Good grief...

I'll read this one too, and if no data to back your claim then get your seat belt on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
08-27-2010, 11:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Cryptic, you said you wouldn't put any game changing things in the C-Store and the T5 Excelsior is already doing just that. It's easily dominating in PvP.
And at the same time, you completely made a mockery of the Sovereign and all the players who Captain her.
Conjecture, no facts, no data, and playing FvF adn FvK, guess what? excelsior ISNT making any diff. actually, its tanking could use some improvement. It is not holding its own vs a AC, and no where near tanking of a SC. I'll run a data cruncher over the next few days to get some data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkOrion69 View Post
Ignore anything Cryptic lies to us about in the C-Store. It is there solely to create a place to sell the best ships they design now. Best we can do about the T5 Excelsior being a bit over-powered is refuse to PvP against them I guess?
personal opinion/conjecture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
I'll be honest, right now I'm regretting being a Lifetime Subscriber. But it angers me more is the Excelsior Refit completely makes my Sovereign a completely useless PoS.
Bad enough the Star Cruiser and the Galaxy-R has more survivability, but the Excelsior-Refit has superior Tactical abilities, better manuverability, and better survival.
So all in all, Sovereign Captains got the middle finger.
again, no facts, no data, no proof of this claim. AGAIN personal opinion/conjecture. (notice this repeating alot? So far only fact I seen is alot of QQ with no data. provide some DATA to back it up, or pretty much have folks ignore ya or show you the holes in your arguements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
The problem is ... the ship with the better stats is the one sold for RL dollars on the C-Store.
better stats? Chum, from you I expected better. Guildie who is a dern fine cruiser captain, his turn radius he got on the Excel 12.7, i run a 13.4 on my AC. I have better HP's by 6500+, both have 4/4 weapons. only diff is BO skills, and with its hull having less hp, that extra Ltc TAC ISNT doing alot for it, that LT eng is hurting its survival a good mount.
Big deal he could hit me with BO3, and he tried a myriad of other skills. I simply out healed him, did the proper defenses vs his attack patterns and he won 0 out of 3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribbler View Post
Are you a Klingon?
If you are, I have been in several PVP battles with you guys and you have been stripping us down like crazy.
It's fair IMHO.
*nods* most pvp, pretty much boild down to folks skill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by f1restarter
Azurian has a valid point here. This ship is extremely powerful. Much stronger than the so called assault cruiser.
And so yes I also bought it. Shame on me I was curious.
But I tell ya what Cryptic. Those were the last points I had to spend. No more money from this player.
What you´re doing with the c-store is insane. Stop this madness.
Go create new ships and they better NOT be in the c-store.
no proof, no data to back up your claim, personal opinion/conjecture...
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
People -
Instead of whining and crying about this, man up (or woman up if it's fitting) and start thinking about suggestions and solutions to rectify this.
The past two days, one of the biggest threads on this forum featured conversation and dialouge with both Jack and dStahl. Obviously they want to hear what we have to say and want to try and overcome their stigma.
So....
Let's help them do that. Come up with ideas and solutions. Not more gripes.
My idea:
Boost up the VA ships. all of them, across the board. I've always felt they were a little weak anyway, so let's get a boost going on, that will bring them into line with the Excelsior refit, or slightly above it.
Stop crying for nerfs and start thinking proactively.
gee, a proactive person, now that IS scary, *thumbs up!*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
What are you talking about its not dominating pvp, i have being pvping in mine and its not dominating, and give the sovereign will be usless thing a break the soverign is a skin thats all call irt by its name asult cruiser, and what are you goin to do when the T6 come out and its not the sovereign skin have kittens?
gee... like the G(x) finding out it has its flaws to and its not a (IWIN) button. Its just a tool, and some folks do well in it, some dont. its all about its setup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Victory275 View Post
Jeez. Overreact much? I see you complain alot on the forums and I always hold back to responding directly. I just can't do it this time. I doubt there's an aspect of the game you haven't whined about. Seriously, the amount of QQ over this ship is setting new records. The Excelsior has better burst potential... and less survivability. So I'm not sure how this renders your assault cruiser or mine a POS. I've already seen a number of posts that counter your claims that the Ex is OP in PvP. How many threads are you gonna spam this propaganda in? All the whining already got the LTC Sci station removed (at the very last minute... hasty) because, "oh noes, they can PSW and BO3 me... OP!" It also got all the refits nerfed too. Good lord... when the klinks finally get there refits the servers will probably crash with all the outcries of how OP they are. Bottom line; One round of PvP dailies and getting owned by players better than youor who got lucky doesn't mean anything except maybe you need to play more and QQ less on the forums.
Same old same old from him Victory, he started this on the Crusier thread and the majority demanded proof, we still havent seen any.
No Data = QQ'ing, plain and simple.

I have had enough of the whining naysaying. SHOW SOME DAMN PROOF before making claims of this nature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
08-27-2010, 11:48 AM
Pretty much /thread right there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
08-27-2010, 01:05 PM
There are tons of quotes about Cryptic and their original anti-microtransaction stance. Stop saying conjecture/no data, etc when there's actually quiet a bit.

Sure, they've already made the argument that they changed their minds and that was before Beat. However this is a HUGE issue that has nothing to do with how the game plays and is more about a controversial business practice. One that they were very much against in the beginning but switched to despite the fact that so many people hate it.

Also going against the general idea of what "game changing" is isn't that good either. Cryptic has always been vague and defined things against the general definition. They say MMO, a lot say it's not. They say "game changing" and stuff like that then release what many or most people consider to be that very definition. We say "Toe-May-Toe", some say "Toe-Mah-Toe", Cryptic says the rare but still arguably as legit "T'May-Tah".


Cryptic makes a practice of going against common thinking. This isn't ideal because basically when they say one thing it can often be taken many different ways, and very often is largely assumed to be the most common way.


Cryptic feels like a lawyer (no offense, my grandpa was a DA!). A confusing contract.



P.S. if someone wants to dig up all that old crap then do it. I'm not wasting my time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
08-28-2010, 01:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
There are tons of quotes about Cryptic and their original anti-microtransaction stance. Stop saying conjecture/no data, etc when there's actually quiet a bit.
Sure, they've already made the argument that they changed their minds and that was before Beat. However this is a HUGE issue that has nothing to do with how the game plays and is more about a controversial business practice. One that they were very much against in the beginning but switched to despite the fact that so many people hate it.
Also going against the general idea of what "game changing" is isn't that good either. Cryptic has always been vague and defined things against the general definition. They say MMO, a lot say it's not. They say "game changing" and stuff like that then release what many or most people consider to be that very definition. We say "Toe-May-Toe", some say "Toe-Mah-Toe", Cryptic says the rare but still arguably as legit "T'May-Tah".
Cryptic makes a practice of going against common thinking. This isn't ideal because basically when they say one thing it can often be taken many different ways, and very often is largely assumed to be the most common way.
Cryptic feels like a lawyer (no offense, my grandpa was a DA!). A confusing contract.
P.S. if someone wants to dig up all that old crap then do it. I'm not wasting my time.
Your last sentence give your argument no credence. the fact you not willing to provide concrete evidence of your statement leads to conjecture/hearsay. I been around since closed beta myself and before them much like many of you. People read what they WANT to read into somethings, that is human nature.

However, a lot of things can be measures, looked at, tested. The claims, QQ, and other things going on?

I have just had my fill of the badmouthing with no evidence and slandering. you dont like the game, get out. that simple, I for one have grown tired of it, and now I will be more then happy to let those that carelessly start crap with no evidence displeasure of it. I had to listen to it long enough, time for the other side to point some things out. You dont like it, fine dont read it. No more of this negative doomsay QQ BS though, myself and many others it seems from seeing the post had had enough of it.

One thing to Discuss something, what is posted here isnt a discussion, its trash talking. no more of that. You bring facts that we can verify, then I be first one supporting you. Cryptic itslef has changed things when presented good data. Quote GOOD unbias data, not the small picture some want them to see. the WHOLE picture.


If cryptic feel slike talking to lawyers, hell can you blame then after all the misquotinga nd out of context they have had to contend with? and we wonder why?!?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
08-28-2010, 01:32 PM
The op is just getting annoying now he has no proof to any of his claims and like you said he has started several of these threads and get shut down every time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
08-28-2010, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoson View Post
Your last sentence give your argument no credence. the fact you not willing to provide concrete evidence of your statement leads to conjecture/hearsay. I been around since closed beta myself and before them much like many of you. People read what they WANT to read into somethings, that is human nature.

However, a lot of things can be measures, looked at, tested. The claims, QQ, and other things going on?

I have just had my fill of the badmouthing with no evidence and slandering. you dont like the game, get out. that simple, I for one have grown tired of it, and now I will be more then happy to let those that carelessly start crap with no evidence displeasure of it. I had to listen to it long enough, time for the other side to point some things out. You dont like it, fine dont read it. No more of this negative doomsay QQ BS though, myself and many others it seems from seeing the post had had enough of it.

One thing to Discuss something, what is posted here isnt a discussion, its trash talking. no more of that. You bring facts that we can verify, then I be first one supporting you. Cryptic itslef has changed things when presented good data. Quote GOOD unbias data, not the small picture some want them to see. the WHOLE picture.


If cryptic feel slike talking to lawyers, hell can you blame then after all the misquotinga nd out of context they have had to contend with? and we wonder why?!?
Well said!!!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
08-28-2010, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoson View Post
Your last sentence give your argument no credence. the fact you not willing to provide concrete evidence of your statement leads to conjecture/hearsay. I been around since closed beta myself and before them much like many of you. People read what they WANT to read into somethings, that is human nature.

However, a lot of things can be measures, looked at, tested. The claims, QQ, and other things going on?

I have just had my fill of the badmouthing with no evidence and slandering. you dont like the game, get out. that simple, I for one have grown tired of it, and now I will be more then happy to let those that carelessly start crap with no evidence displeasure of it. I had to listen to it long enough, time for the other side to point some things out. You dont like it, fine dont read it. No more of this negative doomsay QQ BS though, myself and many others it seems from seeing the post had had enough of it.

One thing to Discuss something, what is posted here isnt a discussion, its trash talking. no more of that. You bring facts that we can verify, then I be first one supporting you. Cryptic itslef has changed things when presented good data. Quote GOOD unbias data, not the small picture some want them to see. the WHOLE picture.


If cryptic feel slike talking to lawyers, hell can you blame then after all the misquotinga nd out of context they have had to contend with? and we wonder why?!?
First off, as paying customers we have every right to post our opinions on the forums. And if you are so tired of hearing people complain, why are you still in this thread, if you don't like it, leave. I'm sick and tired off that every time someone has a problem or someone has an issue, it automatically gets filled with people like you screaming "Leave!" I have no problem with people posting their issues and anger over this game. They put money into this product and are allowed to speak of it as they feel, as long as it doesn't violate the forum rules.

And for someone, who keeps spouting about unbiased proof and peoples opinions, you sure do think yours is fact. The difference between discussion and trash talking is solely based on who is defining it, it is a personal opinion on your part.

As for evidence, though I am quite sure they did mention they would only put cosmetic items in game originally they did say this :

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=23174

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
Bill and I have both posted over on the Champions boards to respond to questions raised by microtransactions. I'll just reiterate what's already been copied and pasted from Bill's State of the Game address on Champions:
  • The vast majority are aesthetic items, such as costume pieces, action figures, emblems, etc.
  • A very few are account-level management tools, such as being able to rename a character
  • Micro-transactions should never limit your ability to enjoy the game or reach the level cap
  • Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play
Which is why I have mostly been upset about the C-Store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
08-28-2010, 03:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mongoson View Post
Same old same old from him Victory, he started this on the Crusier thread and the majority demanded proof, we still havent seen any.
No Data = QQ'ing, plain and simple.

I have had enough of the whining naysaying. SHOW SOME DAMN PROOF before making claims of this nature.
He's already getting data. There's posts of people winning Fleet Actions in this thing. And doing great in PVP. And so on and so forth.

Two of the most vocal pro-excelsior T5 posters, after having drawn out discussions, have both admitted that one of the reasons they state this ship is not OP it's just "different" is because they bought it. Most likely they don't want it nerfed or whatever. But that won't happen. It's a c-store ship. No nerfs once money is paid.

Thing is ... this ship is better at being an assault cruiser than an assault cruiser. And the data in-game right now shows this.

Telling AC captains that they can tank a little better ... is illogical. Neither ship is designed to tank. They're both the offense end of the cruiser pool. And the one you pay money for is superior.

The play in-game reflects this. And Azurian has a point. The assault cruiser is now marginalized by something people can pay real life money for.

Quote:
better stats? Chum, from you I expected better. Guildie who is a dern fine cruiser captain, his turn radius he got on the Excel 12.7, i run a 13.4 on my AC. I have better HP's by 6500+, both have 4/4 weapons. only diff is BO skills, and with its hull having less hp, that extra Ltc TAC ISNT doing alot for it, that LT eng is hurting its survival a good mount.
Big deal he could hit me with BO3, and he tried a myriad of other skills. I simply out healed him, did the proper defenses vs his attack patterns and he won 0 out of 3.
Both of those are because of your skill point allocation. The Excelsior has the exact same BASE HULL as any other T5 cruiser. So if you have more hull, it's because your fleetmate didn't put points into an admiral level skill to boost its hull.

And the turn radius again ... is because of skill points or equipment layout.

The base stats are better on the excelsior. It turns better. And has the exact same hull. And has better DPS potential.

I'm a little disconcerted that you'd bring up hull, since it's already been widely shown that the T5 Excelsior has 39k base hull like every other cruiser.
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