Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
08-30-2010, 06:26 AM
Agree with the general sentiment of the OPs post and replies.

I've also been asked by friends if the game is 'any good' and 'value for money' and the only truthful, objective answer I could give regarding the C-Store and general cost is that they should think of what they would get in terms of enjoyment and time from a standard, single-player, non-online game. If they think 30ish for @a month's gameplay to be good value for money, then STO - which may arguably contain up to four months or so of content for 'casual' gamers, is on par, if not better value... even including another 30ish for various C-Store items.

This is not to say - at all - that I agree with or am happy with the existence of F2P elements in a subscription game, because I don't and I'm not. Unfortunately, as others have said, it's a business model that's been adopted here and what I think is irrelevant.

Personally, I bought the T5 Excelsior as - for various reasons but primarily for its trekdomnesses - I prefer it to the alternatives. I didn't want to pay for it... but had no choice if that's what I wanted to zip around in every time I logged in... but as I said, over a four-month span the total dosh I spend will be plenty less than I'd pay for four 'normal' games.

To be frank, all of those friends were more concerned with whether the game is 'fun' and has plenty of good trekky content. That's another topic - but one or two see the Excelsior (for example) as a definite plus, even if it's a purchase-item.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
08-30-2010, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talonsin View Post
As bad as the C-Store is, I dont think it is the biggest issue with the game. How do you recommend a game with such a terrible crafting system? Why do you have to keep track of 8 or more forms of currency? Why are the skills so poorly documented? Why does PVP and fleet actions get so little participation? Why is there so little participation playing Klingons?

There are core issues with the game but instead of addressing them, Cryptic continues to release C-Store items and add an episode or two. None of that helps with the problems listed above.
Agree completely. The things you just mentioned are much much worse than the C-store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
08-30-2010, 06:46 AM
The C-Store is completely optional. There is nothing in it that you cannot live without, nor which you absolutely need in order to play the game. The game still functions without any item in that store on your account. The OPs rant basically boils down to the simple argument of "need" vs. "want."

I understand that you may want those items, but you don't need them. The items are completely cosmetic, and just like competing with the neighbors over their newest toy, it is ultimately superfluous. Complain about the fact you don't want to spend money on things you want. But don't sit here and complain that they are needed - because they simply are not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
08-30-2010, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noshmek
The C-Store is completely optional. There is nothing in it that you cannot live without, nor which you absolutely need in order to play the game. The game still functions without any item in that store on your account. The OPs rant basically boils down to the simple argument of "need" vs. "want."

I understand that you may want those items, but you don't need them. The items are completely cosmetic, (...) don't sit here and complain that they are needed - because they simply are not.
An interesting argument.
So, according to that statement cryptic could simply put any new STFs, missions, crafting system, whatever, in the c-store. I mean hey, "the game still functions without any" of them. Oh hey while we are at it, make access to the pvp-queues a c-store item aswell, even better: make it a monthly-fee thing in the c-store. I mean come on, you can't complain about that, doing so would just be an argument of "need" vs. "want", after all it is just cosmetics, just like the capabilities of an excelsior (and any future ship/item like it that are in the pipeline), even without pvp you can still play the game just like before: fighting other ships/enemies.
New missions? Hell that is just cosmetics and not "needed" as well. While we are at it, all existing story missions could be made c-store as well. As you said it, as far as the c-store is concerned, anything goes that isn't needed for the game to "function". Missions are just cosmetics pulled over the way you earn skill points etc. The game works just fine if you simply grind DSEs to level up, so missions are optional thus they can go in the c-store!
Oh, oh! Emblems, daily missions and the corresponding item vendors: absolutely no need for those either. Just put a c-store purchasable access membership in place for those who "want" these things. After all anyone can play the game with just looted items or the standard equipment on ships when they are bought.

Normally I would end this kind of post with "there are many more examples, but 'you get the point'" unfortunately I am not all too sure about the last part there here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
08-30-2010, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noshmek
The C-Store is completely optional. There is nothing in it that you cannot live without, nor which you absolutely need in order to play the game. The game still functions without any item in that store on your account. The OPs rant basically boils down to the simple argument of "need" vs. "want."

I understand that you may want those items, but you don't need them. The items are completely cosmetic, and just like competing with the neighbors over their newest toy, it is ultimately superfluous. Complain about the fact you don't want to spend money on things you want. But don't sit here and complain that they are needed - because they simply are not.
I'm sorry but I disagree. Many of the items in your opinion or optional.. but they should have been in the game in the first place. The Excelsior class is a CANON ship and deserved to be there since day one.

"need" is subjective and the issue is no other MMORPG relies so heavily on micro transactions.. if this game was F2P then yes, the micro transactions are warranted.. but games F2P games like DDO even have the ability to get all their microtransaction items through in game ways.. including content drops on bosses or transferring gold to their virtual store currency.

Again, this game is in dire straights and you missed the point of the post completely. The C-Store + sub is a total turn off for people to reccomend this game. Thats the point of it. A new person comes into this game and sees the C-Store and its 200+ dollars worth of stuff.. and says "f that".. regardless if its needed or not.. people see it as a cash grab.

The alternative is get more subs.. which requires an outside the box thinking right now as STO has not performed very well and Cryptic acknowledges it.

Age of Conan suffered from going from 800k box sales to under 100k subs from having a crappy start.. but they pulled themselves together with no microtransactions and is now heralded as a very good MMO.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
08-30-2010, 07:06 AM
C-store is optional. Fine. That's not the point.

Well, using that logic I never really 'needed" to get my epic in EQ1. But it was something that I was proud to have earned.

Name me that thing. The thing when you are VA... that you are proud to have worked for and earned in game? Something that others who are unwilling to earn it do not have?

Dunno... I'm not there yet. But if the game up to Commander 7 is any indication, there is no such thing. You level, you get a default ship, you can get the same gear as everyone else on the exchange.

Of course, there's no denying the fact that some are perfectly ok with that. Myself, I'm not used to it for sure. Because that's not the way this genre was built.

My epic weapon in EQ loses just about ALL value were it available for purchase.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
08-30-2010, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noshmek
The C-Store is completely optional. There is nothing in it that you cannot live without, nor which you absolutely need in order to play the game. The game still functions without any item in that store on your account. The OPs rant basically boils down to the simple argument of "need" vs. "want."

I understand that you may want those items, but you don't need them. The items are completely cosmetic, and just like competing with the neighbors over their newest toy, it is ultimately superfluous. Complain about the fact you don't want to spend money on things you want. But don't sit here and complain that they are needed - because they simply are not.
Proof that sometimes flybys do happen... It is apparent that you did not understand the points I brought up so I will put it more plainly without mention of the C-Store.

In a game you spend time playing wouldn't it be nice to be rewarded for the time you spend playing? Isn't that what playing MMORPGs is about? Ooo! Look at that! SHINY! What did you do to get that Shiny? Nothing? What fun is that? What did you achieve? Why play 6 months down the road?

Even FPS games realize to keep people playing you need to toss them a bone for actually playing these days. Unlocking weapons, skills etc. They give you a sense of achievement.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
08-30-2010, 07:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blumonday View Post
I'm sorry but I disagree. Many of the items in your opinion or optional.. but they should have been in the game in the first place. The Excelsior class is a CANON ship and deserved to be there since day one.
Newsflash: you can get the Excelsior in game without the C-store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
08-30-2010, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Newsflash: you can get the Excelsior in game without the C-store.
Ok.. so I can fly around in T3 with limited transwarp feature.. but if I want T5 with all the bells and whistles.. its 15 bucks.. which is MORE than buying the entire game where I am from.

Micro transactions should not cost more than the damn game itself.. hence the MICRO in its name..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
08-30-2010, 07:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Newsflash: you can get the Excelsior in game without the C-store.
As always, Nagus, you miss the point.

Somedays i'm not sure whether or not you troll, or just don't get it.
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