Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 41
08-30-2010, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blumonday View Post
BluYak.
I completely agree with your OP.
I have turned away all my friends and family from this game as the "double pay" features in this game bother me a lot.
I would really like to see a sense of achievement from STO.. give me something that shows I worked hard in this game not opened my wallet and bought it.

The biggest turn off, I believe, for a new comer to this game is loading it up for the first time and seeing over 200 dollars worth of items in the C-Store... ridiculous.

the only thing the C-Store should sell is account features, respecs, and the occasional cosmetic item.
My girlfriend and I have been playing for 3 weeks now and our subs have already been canceled. Simple reasons, really and the c-store mentality is a major reason why we did so.

We were enjoyiing the game for what it is. We had initially passed on STO after hearing some of the horror stories, but siince we've played MMOs together for the years we have we figured, "Oh hell why not?! The game's just 20 bucks now let's give it a try! People always exaggerate about things on the forums of any game."

Sad to say that the majority of the complaints were valid and true.

Things like:
Being limited to 2 characters (3 once you unlock an accolade) and having to pay for more..
EMOTES for sale?!
Overpriced ships for sale (15-25 bucks for SINGLE SHIPS?!)
Not being able to group together for some of the content (like exploration missions)
Extreme repetiveness to gameplay/mission types.

Just things like that just makes the game not too enjoyable for us as a couple of potential long term subbers. Neither one of us have an issue with an item store, per se IF DONE RIGHT.

Respecs, renames, fluff clothing items, ship skins? Sure why not. Playable races, extra character slots (when so vastly limited as is to begin with), 'game changing' items? Not so much. Especially in a game where we see how unfinished it is and the problems it has which hinders our game play.

On top of that when we have seen very little progress on the bugs that keep hitting us and see more items introduced to the c-store and the talk/plans of the next overpriced item coming to it . . . well, it just turns us off to the game even more. Gives the *impression* that their priorities are off.

The way we see it why continue to give these guys our money each month? There are several MMOs on the market (and looking at our game shelf I think we own 90% of them lol) that we can subscribe to (for the same sub price this game charges) and experience a lot more content and gameplay all WITHOUT having to spend extra money!

Yeah, yeah the c store stuff is optional and what not, but it's not the point. It might be for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if I read somwhere a few months down the road that items are being added that give a distinct edge in gameplay and everything is per character transaction, either.

Yeah, I know . . ."STFU N00BS" and "Don't let the door hit you guys on your asses on the way out!" and "Good! If you don't like it then leave!" applies, but whatever. You can keep telling people who have issues with the game that and the hand few of you can enjoy being milked for all you're worth till the game bleeds to death.

PS: No, you can't have my stuff!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 42
08-30-2010, 10:32 AM
In regards to the OP i have to say whenever i mention STO to my fellow players in Lotro i hear things like:

OMG !

You´re STILL playing that ?!

I tried it in open beta, does space still look like a 4-year old ran amok with his crayons ?

Suffice it to say, i barely mention the game to them anymore.

What do i say when someone asks about it being worth to play ? I usually try to be honest and tell them to wait until i can tell them it has gotten better (which it has since launch, no doubt) to a point where it should have been at launch (which it isn´t right now).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 43
08-30-2010, 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelakh View Post
I never said it was game-breaking. In fact, I actually said "...however slight."

The point is that these are differences, regardless of the amount of impact, that are not available at all in-game. It's deplorable.
Wasn't referring to anyone in particular

Yeah... there are slight differences... but the negligible, fleeting impact of them - in only one aspect of the game - should allow for some perspective. There are far more things that might merit the use of the word 'deplorable.' - and certainly stuff more game-breaking

For me, it's not an issue of minuscule PvP advantage... I couldn't give a monkey's if someone has a Tac III skill slotted rather than a II for the loss of 'some' Eng functionality and ablehealrate - in fact, if PvP lifts your skirts, such an opponent might even be seen as more of a challenge, perhaps, rather than cause for tears and calling foul... stores simply should not exist AT ALL in a pay-for-game-then-subscribe game. Capitalism! Spit!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
08-30-2010, 11:24 AM
I think in the end, STO is a great example of that its more important to make a buck than it is to sell a good product (see Wal-Mart). After the Beta, I defended the game frequently, citing the standard 'WoW wasn't built in a day' and 'even *** became playable,' but after they repeated the mistake of publishing unplayable content for season 2 and are still not close to understanding the bugs in the star clusters... I've had to give up. Its been 4 weeks since I've been able to log in and play for more than an hour without a game ending bug, and Cryptic won't respond to me with anything other than 'we are aware and working diligently to fix this bug.' think about it: As small as the player base is, there have been nigh 1,000,000 bug tickets submitted in 200ish days. How about putting an option in the C-Store to go back to the season 1.2 build? I'd buy that just so i could play the game for a little bit. I think that unfortunately, instead of this being a game that makes new trekkies, it is just a game of diehards refusing to get off their dead horse. I truly wish i had never bought that lifetime sub.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 45
08-30-2010, 12:04 PM
On the one hand I find it amusing that the lifers are now repeating vociferously what the non-lifers have been saying all long.

On the other hand, with the game being under new management, as it were, the potential for greatness is much higher now. STO had been misled for a long time - there is more to making a good game than just the IP attached, apparently Cryptic had been unaware of Atari's 1980s ET fiasco...but, I digress.

A single game rarely can appeal to every player equally nor can it make every player happy. A good game tends to have good elements that overshadow its bad elements. A bad game generally offends every type of player equally - and this is what STO achieved in its early days...leaving a sour taste in the mouth of all those who ate of it in Beta, Headstart and Release.

STO is better now than it was...I don't believe it is worth a monthly fee, still, nor do I believe it was ever worth the lifetime subscription fee...however, I think it is progressing to a point where it WILL be worth spending money in the C-store for game enjoyment as well as recommending the playing of it to others.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 46
08-30-2010, 12:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blumonday View Post
I really enjoy the "IF YOU DON"T LIKE IT DONT BUY IT" argument.. how does that stand up? I betaed the game, liked it, bought the lifer membership to show my support based on what Cryptic told us and now 6 months later.. I have a right to complain because what we were told and what we were given were two different things..

I wish I could just bury my head in the sand like you and pretend all is well in STO world..

PS- your whole IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T BUY IT argument has worked well for STO.. the sub numbers have never been higher and the reviews are just glorious..
Like me, I figured you bought a lifetime because there was nothing else STO "needed" for you to want to be able to play for a long time. If not,

Now some would have us believe that there is a ship or something else in the c-store that affects this. I don't think so because everything there is "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T BUY IT".

All is well in my STO world. I bought and lifetime subscribed to one thing. And to my pleasure, it has gotten even better with time. Too few purchases that applies to these days.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 47
08-30-2010, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windchaser
Overpriced ships for sale (15-25 bucks for SINGLE SHIPS?!)
Imagine how much a new faction is going to be:

5 tiers of ships with 3 ships each;
New bridge officer races;
New captain races;
New sectors.

If the refits are any indication, the Romulan faction will be at least $300, and it's a coin-toss whether they'll get a Warbird-with-cloak as part of that, or if the quite popular Romulan ship will cost extra.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 48
08-30-2010, 02:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blumonday View Post
Age of Conan suffered from going from 800k box sales to under 100k subs from having a crappy start.. but they pulled themselves together with no microtransactions and is now heralded as a very good MMO.
This is true. The turn around stated with the replacement of the EP; which we recently had here. Additionally, Funcom paid close attention to the community's issues and corrected as many as possible as quickly as possible and really started to interact and provide lots of communication about things.

Sadly enough FunCom still does not sell any LtS but I'm prepaid until 2013 so I guess it does not matter.

The real turn around happened with the RotGs x-pack. It was solid all the way around and a LOT of people came back after the unanimous community and critical review feedback. Consequently what I'm driving at here is that there still is hope for STO provided that developer leadership and the active community are operating from the same agenda.

The take away message is simple, take care of the active players and they will be your marketing machine. This is also the principle idea in the OP - yes?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 49
08-30-2010, 02:08 PM
<music in the background>..."Transformers!.... C-store threads in disguise!"

Okay, so when i started reading your thread I thought I was going to read some great insight into why you can't convince your friends about the value in this game. Such as its many faults that this game, as an MMO has, just like many other MMOs.

But it was a cleverly disguised C-store thread! Congrats!

Okay, so we have all heard this argument before and before its shoveled off into the C-store forum, please recognize that this is is all debatable from each side of the house. Items in the C-store can be viewed as "game changing" or not by opinion. It can be viewed as "unique" or not by opinion. And it can be viewed as "needed" or not by opinion. This opinion will rage on forever, as the model of MMO business changes.

Two things to keep in mind:

MMOs, like any other games are a BUSINESS. Do not fool yourselves into thinking otherwise. They are here to make money and profit at YOUR expense. As long as you enjoy yourself paying for the game, that is a good thing. if you are not enjoying yourself, stop paying and playing (and posting here LOL). This is the BEST way to affect the business model at this point.

C-Store: It's not going away no matter how much we whine and complain about it. In fact, they are not likely at all to change their current practices of putting the kinds of items into it. It's part of their financial model to keep STO rockin' and so by getting rid of the C-Store you are effectively getting rid of the game itself. They don't have enough subs alone to make this game successful and profitable (see my first point) without it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 50
08-30-2010, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirnea
<music in the background>[..]

C-Store: It's not going away no matter how much we whine and complain about it. In fact, they are not likely at all to change their current practices of putting the kinds of items into it. It's part of their financial model to keep STO rockin' and so by getting rid of the C-Store you are effectively getting rid of the game itself. They don't have enough subs alone to make this game successful and profitable (see my first point) without it.
While I dont necessarily disagree with your prior assertions, the part I underlined is patently wrong.

It would be interesting to know exact numbers as to subs and I would be willing to bet a sizable about of people bailed because they could not get the ships and other stuff in game so that inherently cost Cryptic money. The question is really boils down to how much revenue enchantments can the player base deal with while still paying a monthly fee for what principally amounts to access, occasional bug fixes and some small mission additions - at least up to this date.

It is as I have stated before, if they make a clear way for people to get all the stuff in the store in game - as we were promised prior to launch then I would also be willing to bet the vast majority of complaints about the store will simply vanish.
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