Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
08-30-2010, 02:38 PM
It is not like Cryptic is pointing a gun towards your head and forcing you to buy from the C-store. There are three types of things on the C-store, services, cosmetics, and ingame items.

1. Services - there is no MMO that I know of that gives these away for free. The retrain token is available through other means ingame, but the account wide services are not available ingame.
2. Cosmetics - emotes, costumes, and skins fall under this. They already provide other ways to get similar items.
3. Ingame items - there are currently two different types of ingame items, preorder/special edition and ships. The only exclusive ship that we have to buy through the C-store is the T5 Excelsior. Galaxy X and the T5.5 refits (Defiant,Galaxy, Intrepid) are currently available through other means, but the Galaxy X's other mean takes actual work. Most MMOs doesn't allow people to purchase specific preorder/special edition items. In City of Heroes, their preorder items were added as vet rewards.

Each of the ingame items has the option to earn an ingame item for free or use the lazy way to purchase it with real money. I don't need to waste money on a costume pack, emote pack, or ship skin, but I can. As far as the Excelsior, it doesn't change the gameplay anymore than any other ship with a unique ability does. It is not like piloting an Excelsior will make you near invincible and able to destroy ships with just one simple attack.

If the C-store can continue to let us have free Seasons and not have to worry about stuff like Going Rogue, Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King, and Cataclysm, then it is a small price to pay for most except for those that have to buy everything. DLCs and paid expansions seem to be prevalent in most game companies. If we see missions, features, and STFs on the C-store, then be worried. Otherwise, just laugh behind people's backs that they paid $15 to $25 for a lousy ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
08-30-2010, 02:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Spartan View Post
[color="Lime"]While I dont necessarily disagree with your prior assertions, the part I underlined is patently wrong.
Actually neither you or I can say for sure if getting rid of the C-store would make the game go away. I think getting rid of the c-store will make the game "less" profitable for sure, so I don't think they will get rid of it. I think Cryptic would be much more willing to axe the game if STO didn't have a C-store and hence the extra income. Again, none of this we will ever know for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Spartan View Post

It is as I have stated before, if they make a clear way for people to get all the stuff in the store in game - as we were promised prior to launch then I would also be willing to bet the vast majority of complaints about the store will simply vanish.
I also agree on this point here. You can see my previous threads on both ways to earn more Emblems and as well as posts about making C-store items "Purchaseable" with Emblems. I think the solution to the C-store rants is the End game grind for Emblems actually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
08-30-2010, 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Spartan View Post
While I dont necessarily disagree with your prior assertions, the part I underlined is patently wrong.
.
True, the game won't vanish without a C-store, but it is a way for Cryptic to pay for maintenance fees, more devs, more GMs, and more technology to create free content for us. Putting up with buying useless items allows more free useless items. According to the City of Hero devs, the sales of the first microtransaction item allowed them to release a new character class that players of City of Villains have being waiting for months. Without the microtransaction, it wouldn't have been released or it would have taken years for it to become available. It would be interesting to get a dev response to show what features were released early or at all because of the C-store.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
08-30-2010, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirnea
I also agree on this point here. You can see my previous threads on both ways to earn more Emblems and as well as posts about making C-store items "Purchaseable" with Emblems. I think the solution to the C-store rants is the End game grind for Emblems actually.
This is all anybody who is angry about the C-Store in general, and the Excelsior in particular, is requesting.

Well, for the VA token as well. Just like the other refits.

For me, the Excelsior is the only T5 ship that I find even tolerable design-wise. But I'm not paying $20 for it. No virtual item is worth more than maybe $10, and I probably would only really consider it around $5.

So they tried to milk me and instead I ended up canceling my subscription, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Except for the diehard trekkies, everybody will reach their limit. Will it be the Nebula? Will it be the T'Pol jumpsuit? I kind of doubt it will be the TMP uniforms. It'll vary for everybody, but eventually Cryptic will alienate most, if not all, of their potential long-term customers for short-term gain.

The question for them then is, are diehard Trekkies going to be enough not just to sustain the game, but make it worth Cryptic's while? I suspect not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
08-30-2010, 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
This is all anybody who is angry about the C-Store in general, and the Excelsior in particular, is requesting.

Well, for the VA token as well. Just like the other refits.

For me, the Excelsior is the only T5 ship that I find even tolerable design-wise. But I'm not paying $20 for it. No virtual item is worth more than maybe $10, and I probably would only really consider it around $5.

So they tried to milk me and instead I ended up canceling my subscription, and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. Except for the diehard trekkies, everybody will reach their limit. Will it be the Nebula? Will it be the T'Pol jumpsuit? I kind of doubt it will be the TMP uniforms. It'll vary for everybody, but eventually Cryptic will alienate most, if not all, of their potential long-term customers for short-term gain.

The question for them then is, are diehard Trekkies going to be enough not just to sustain the game, but make it worth Cryptic's while? I suspect not.
Sad to hear you've cancelled your sub over the Excelsior issue... truly.

With respect, could I suggest a shift in viewpoint? Rather than think how much the Excelsior costs, total up all the money you spend - including the cost of the Excelsior - and calculate if the cost is worth the time played and/or time you will play in comparison to how much you'd spend on other games? And do the same bit of math for whatever extra C-Store item pops up in the future?

TBH, I think the vast bulk of MMOs are good value for money when viewed like that - and this one, too... even with the Excelsior outlay.

Personally, I've found that spending that dosh on the Excelsior - despite much rather not having to (no surprise there) - has added to my own sense of game fun and enjoyment... and that is, ultimately, why I'm here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
08-30-2010, 03:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubia
With respect, could I suggest a shift in viewpoint? Rather than think how much the Excelsior costs, total up all the money you spend - including the cost of the Excelsior - and calculate if the cost is worth the time played and/or time you will play in comparison to how much you'd spend on other games? And do the same bit of math for whatever extra C-Store item pops up in the future?
That's already how I looked at it. Not only is the Excelsior not worth $20, but since the plan is apparently to charge extra for significant content on top of the monthly subscription fee, that means I'm not getting my money's worth out of my $15 a month, either.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
08-30-2010, 04:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoNoir View Post
That's already how I looked at it. Not only is the Excelsior not worth $20, but since the plan is apparently to charge extra for significant content on top of the monthly subscription fee, that means I'm not getting my money's worth out of my $15 a month, either.
But surely you're still looking at a single ship as an individual cost, rather than spreading the total cost out more. Not saying you're wrong to do so... but for me, if I had that view, what the hell am I doing paying hard-earned real-life cash to play with transient pixels when a good Thai massage would be cheaper and, if I'm lucky, more... thrilling?

It's easy to devalue something, with the right mindset. Perhaps you're just not enjoying the game enough?

As for charging for significant content atop the subscription - all of the sub'd MMOs I've played have charged for expansions - it's the norm.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
08-30-2010, 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nubia
As for charging for significant content atop the subscription - all of the sub'd MMOs I've played have charged for expansions - it's the norm.
It's one ship.

ONE. SHIP.

And it costs half as much as an expansion to WoW, which includes new races and/or classes, new zones, new gear, new quests, new dungeons, new mounts, new abilities, new crafting professions...

I'd consider paying $20 for a real expansion, like, say, the addition of a Romulan faction. As long as it has fleshed out PvE, with new Romulan specific sectors, new Romulan ships and races and the like. (But not if the Warbird with cloaking device costs extra.)

The Excelsior isn't an expansion. It's new gear. Most games put out new gear without charging beyond the subscription fee, and they don't go bankrupt. I know WoW has put in new zones and dungeons and endgame armor sets without charging an extra dime; so has LotRO. So has most every other MMO out there.

I was just looking at the store for LotRO and the prices there are by far more reasonable than Cryptic's, and that's without charging a monthly subscription fee. And that's even taking into account the fact that I'm ****ed at Turbine for trying to sell me the same game twice.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
08-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueYak
I always find it amusing when people like you post frivolous nonsense like this about post counts to up their own riculous post counts. I am not sure this post was aimed at you nor should it concern a myopic gamer such as yourself.

I actually think that was funny...It's better than everyone always complaining.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
08-30-2010, 04:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blumonday View Post
It isn't equal.. you aren't getting what I'm saying.......
here is an easy question for you to answer in a single word only " Name another T5 ship with transwarp skill or the BO slots allocated to the T5 Excelsior" and the diplomatic missions don't count as they are not based on the ship's skill.. or even better the Nebula's AWAC ability.

The answer is "NONE"
There you go.

C-Store does not equal what is available in game. IF they added a T5 ship that was free with transwarp capabitilies then your point would be correct and I would stand corrected and admit you are right.
I can see the Grand Nagus's point.

"Name another T5 ship with X..."

The free T5 ships in the game don't have comparable features either. The Intrepid has ablative generator, the Defiant has cloak and the Galaxy has saucer sep. The Transwarp drive is just the Excelsior T5's special thing. The Nebula's sensor net is it's special thing. In theory, all those ships should be classed together in the same band, so that your "C-Store does not equal what is available in game" is cancelled out.

If the Excelsior, Nebula and Galaxy X are overpowered, then they should be nerfed or the other free ships enhanced to balance out any imbalances rather than calling for the death of the C-Store.

The strategy for the C-Store is to give players options to buy "additional" items. Exotic enough to entice people to get, if so desired, but not critical for competitive gameplay (keeping up with the haves and the have-nots). I've been playing for 100 days and haven't felt the need to buy a Galaxy X or an Excelsior T5.

I don't have a problem with superfluous items going into the C-Store, things like the Formalwear and extra emotes that don't really matter to my gameplay.

But for anything that is useful, like the new ships and alternative playable races, as long as there are free equivalents in the game or a way to get everything that is on the C-Store in alternative ways, for example, the Galaxy X being available for free via the referral program, then I am OK with it.

They just need to start working on incorporating the stuff on the C-Store for free in the game - which answers the concerns of the original post about the sense of earning rewards. If I could earn the Galaxy X or Excelsior through emblem grind or as a prize at the end of a special STF, then that would be acceptable.

People who couldn't wait or are not interested in doing those missions, "who may be casual players" with disposable income, could buy them on the C-Store instead.
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