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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Fear and trust. Trust was lost and Dstahl is doing a good job on his part in trying to re-build it. We do appreciate it. But we are aslo fearful of where the road is leading for KDF development. Dstahl has done a good job of trying to assure us that the road leads tomore development...but we also recognize that it will be a slow and narrow road, with limit resources and smaller releases over that extend time.

So...how do we resolve the issues of trust and fear while utilizing the only thing that will actually rebuiild trust and aleviate fear? We need to get the KDF community more involved in creation of our content.

We cant make the devs create more or faster than they can...so we have to make what is made count! We need to part of the process and we need to see the hiccups as they come along, not 2 days before release and the anncouncment of another 6wks or dev time. If we know about the code conflict, the delay from CBS, the bug that draws our dev contributor away, than we are longer just along for the ride...we become part of the crew.

Its like people who are afraid while flying...its because they dont understand whats involved, that their ignorance allows for their minds to go wild about the "what ifs"...fear creeps in.

I propse that KDF content not just be dev projects. but community projects. We dont need surprises anymore, we dont need the surprise unvelings anymore...we need to make the most every little piece of content we get. We need whatever we get to hit the ground running. We dont need another disappoinment like the Kar'fi. If we only get one ship, it needs to be the ship, its needs to be what we've been asking for. We need to be a little less consumer a bit more producer, we need to be intergral.

We need to get simple break downs of what can have resources allocated to it(a new ship, a new planet, a new sector, etc, then we need to discuss what we want to see in that content. Let the devs crank out mock ups and present them, lets say "ya" or "nay", "run with it" or "try it again". Let us know when its sent to CBS, let us know what they ok'ed and what they didnt, lets help with the final selection, then keep us updated with its progression just like any other project. Let us be part of the process, so we dont remain ignorant of the process, ignorant of the effort, ignorant of the hiccups, ignorant of the obstacles....most importantly, ignorant of the delays and why. Then there is less fear, then there is more trust. Its harder to complain about a process when you are part of it.

I remember as a flight instructor they taught us that one of the best ways of helping a student or passenger who is showing signs of fear is to occupy them with something, keep them busy....get them involved. When my wife flew with me for the first time, she was terrified...literally in tears before we got in the plane. We eventually got her settled down, but after about an hour in the air, the fear came back. I did everything right, the flight was good, it was smooth...but it came back(sound familiar?). I didnt have much to work with so I just got out the map. I had here look at the map and look outside to see if she could find where we were, I showed her where we were going and how....the participation didnt allow enough rom for fear to enter in. She was no longer ignorant of the process, she was part of the crew now...not just a passenger(though she wouldnt let allow here to hold the control yoke...that was abit too much).

In the end, she was better off because I included her, I addressed the root of the issues and we both had an eaiser time because of it. It made the remainder of the 3hr flight enjoyable because I let her in.

Dstahl, you are best thing to happen for our KDF...but let us be part of it...together we make this difficult and long process more bearable for all parties involved.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-06-2010, 09:41 PM
I certainly agree with the sentiment of this post, I'm just unsure how in depth into the development process that DStahl and co can go with us without incurring the wrath of someone higher up the food chain.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-06-2010, 09:47 PM
Realistically speaking, the new weekly episodes and an occasional new Klingon specific episode is about the most we're going to get from the Dev team. I'd love more, but thats just being realistic. I think the REAL source of new Klingon content is going to come from UGC in season 3, so I just hope the Klingon fan fiction writers are preparing their stories now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-06-2010, 09:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkphenoix
I certainly agree with the sentiment of this post, I'm just unsure how in depth into the development process that DStahl and co can go with us without incurring the wrath of someone higher up the food chain.
Valid point...we need to find that point and draw the line. But we need to be upfront with that line. We dont need to be totally in dark anymore, just so they can have all the fanfare of the unveiling...the time for ticker tape, balloons and the dev team jumping out from behind there hiding places to yell, "surprise!" has passed.

I'll say it again....we cant afford another Kar'fi. Its was cool and all, but we need something more substantial for the few items we get until the content(especially our Fleet options) is more rounded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Realistically speaking, the new weekly episodes and an occasional new Klingon specific episode is about the most we're going to get from the Dev team. I'd love more, but thats just being realistic. I think the REAL source of new Klingon content is going to come from UGC in season 3, so I just hope the Klingon fan fiction writers are preparing their stories now.
I plan to do my part.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-06-2010, 10:08 PM
he only has 2 options

Fix the kdf side, catch them up on content for lvl 5-43 and the other stuff they promised and reverse the one sided to the feds that should have always been dev'd for both sides even if with dif looks and ways of doing it or........

keep with the status quo, watch the kdf side die, people leave and see the negative posts all over the web and reviews on there games for years to come. and pvp destroyed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-06-2010, 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Realistically speaking, the new weekly episodes and an occasional new Klingon specific episode is about the most we're going to get from the Dev team. I'd love more, but thats just being realistic. I think the REAL source of new Klingon content is going to come from UGC in season 3, so I just hope the Klingon fan fiction writers are preparing their stories now.
Indeed, as frustrated as I am with things, dstahl and crew are doing the best they can with what they have. We won't see any quick improvements to the game unless the higher ups at Cryptic or Atari (whoever is really in charge of development) pull their heads out of their @$$es and devotes more resources to their projects (or consolidate if that is fiscally impossible).

UGC is going to be depended on to correct the game, and that shouldn't be, it shouldn't have even gotten to that point in the first place, but it has for one reason or another....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-06-2010, 10:43 PM
this is what gets me about the it takes time argument, feel free to disagree or agree with this, if they have been working on us as much as they have with the feds, if they had stuff in beta but it wasnt ready for release so they held it back and just released kdf as a pvp faction and none of there pve stuff. where is it all.

the standing point there going off now makes me think that they have infact not even thought about touching the kdf upto this point except the 8 episodes scattered about the ranks, they cant call the changes to explore etc as our dev as its just a copy paste of what the feds have but worse and more broken then theres. and this goes back to the vet rewards excuse that they just wernt thought important enough to be deved at the time even though to the conterary there was a post and reply about the kdf longcoat when it was in dev so they knew it was wanted, and the arguemnt but there could be a technical issue, what technical issue, when feds were there vet reward or ambassabor coat it replaces what there wearing, do we have dif models to the feds or something. im sure feds have klingons on there side, can they were vet reqards and formal wear, can aliens.

and to the ugc being usable by the kdf, im highly doubting it for one fact, we have 2 zones, 1 a pvp zone, and erm ow yes the other a pvp zone, so technically feds get access to all the zones via arenas, where are we going to create this content, on what planets and in what zones ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-06-2010, 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ngara
this is what gets me about the it takes time argument, feel free to disagree or agree with this, if they have been working on us as much as they have with the feds, if they had stuff in beta but it wasnt ready for release so they held it back and just released kdf as a pvp faction and none of there pve stuff. where is it all.
Honestly I don't know what to tell you; the only thing that I can say is that they have too much that they want to do, and way to few people to do it all.

If that is the case, then somebody at Atari (or Cryptic, I really don't know who makes the team and project decisions for these companies) is making mistakes that a 1st year business student wouldn't make with major products.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ngara
the standing point there going off now makes me think that they have infact not even thought about touching the kdf upto this point except the 8 episodes scattered about the ranks, they cant call the changes to explore etc as our dev as its just a copy paste of what the feds have but worse and more broken then theres. and this goes back to the vet rewards excuse that they just wernt thought important enough to be deved at the time even though to the conterary there was a post and reply about the kdf longcoat when it was in dev so they knew it was wanted, and the arguemnt but there could be a technical issue, what technical issue, when feds were there vet reward or ambassabor coat it replaces what there wearing, do we have dif models to the feds or something. im sure feds have klingons on there side, can they were vet reqards and formal wear, can aliens.
Here's the thing; I believe that those 8 episodes took a lot of effort, particularly when tied in with everything else that went into Season 2, and therein lies part of the problem (manpower).

Another part of the problem, is that while it's true that they have given the Klingons Star cluster missions, Fleet Actions and STFs, and that likely was a fair bit of work to retool it to the KDF side; the perception works against dstahl and his team. That's because in the eyes of every Klingon player who was here prior to launch, that content should have been in on the Klingon side to begin with (along with the episodes), and so making it seem like we were being given something great only worked to fuel more anger from the dedicated Klingons.

Yet another part of the problem is that so many Klingons have been driven away starting with the announcement that the Klingons would be PvP centric prior to the open beta. Would the population every have been 50/50 between fed and KDF, of course not, but the point is that they have been losing Klingons far more quickly and constantly than they have been gaining them. As a result dstahl has to choose between helping an angry portion of the playerbase, alienating his largest base, or trying to help everbody. So far he's trying to help everybody, but perception is again working against him because he's continuing with old plans that were slated for the Federation at a time when the Klingon base's patience is extremely thin (broken in some cases).

Those are just three problems here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sh1ngara
and to the ugc being usable by the kdf, im highly doubting it for one fact, we have 2 zones, 1 a pvp zone, and erm ow yes the other a pvp zone, so technically feds get access to all the zones via arenas, where are we going to create this content, on what planets and in what zones ?
It's how they are going to do it, which entails people creating their own instances on places. It won't be the greatest thing, but some people want it and regardless of how I or others feel about it, it's going to happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-06-2010, 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sivar View Post
Honestly I don't know what to tell you; the only thing that comes to mind is that they have too much that they want to do, and way to few people to do it all.
I think that's a really valid point. One I'd agree with. A lot of times I talk about how the issues with the KDF are reflected in the entire game. And I cite oversights and bugs and typos that make it live. I think what you're saying is the crux of the problem.

I'll give them credit that they can turn out some amazing work with a small staff. But each step forward gets a few steps back. Like 2.0. Some amazing content debuted with that. But the patch broke too many things. Not enough people to catch this in time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-07-2010, 12:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by superchum View Post
I think that's a really valid point. One I'd agree with. A lot of times I talk about how the issues with the KDF are reflected in the entire game. And I cite oversights and bugs and typos that make it live. I think what you're saying is the crux of the problem.

I'll give them credit that they can turn out some amazing work with a small staff. But each step forward gets a few steps back. Like 2.0. Some amazing content debuted with that. But the patch broke too many things. Not enough people to catch this in time.
I think this is part of what dstahl and Jack Emmert mean when they are talking about bringing better quality. Cryptic is good at churning out something that works quickly. But it could work a lot better.

Season 2 brought a lot of diverse things. Level Cap Increase. 2 new currencies (Latinum, Emblems). Diplomacy content. Klingon PvE Missions. Faction-Neutral PvE Missions. A Fleet Action. Refits. Mini-Games. Ship Interiors

That might have been too many things at once. Some stuff I can see being done in parallel. Others less so. For example - add Diplomacy Content and Ship Interiors and compare it to PvE Missions. I have the feeling pretty much the same teams are working on that, since you need to build story content (dialogs!) for them, and you need maps. Ther could have been a few more episodes added to the game for that. Or the Fleet Action could have been more polished and better balanced.

So, if Cryptic is keeping to their word, we might see less of such complex updates. We might see more focused stuff, with less bugs and more features within it. More depth.
We'll see how this works out in Season 3, I suppose.
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