Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-15-2010, 11:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jburke4 View Post
While not prominently displayed in the series and movies there were both battleships and carriers in the Star Trek books and most other Star Trek games.
If, with not prominently, you mean not at all, then yes. And the (non-canon) novels also included books which proclaimed straight-out that pure battleships are not compatible to what the Federation stands for. Starfleet is, at best, a peacekeeping force, which only assumes military duties in times of need, but primarily pursues scientific and diplomatic goals (i.e. to "go where no-one has gone before"). Remember how even the little Defiant was officially labeled an "escort", although Sisko noted that it is a pure warship, even if nobody wanted to admit this? There have always been somewhat shady deviations from this general rule (such as Project Pegasus), but I do fear that the general introduction of battleships would water down the core idea of Starfleet even more than it has already been done in the game.

Regarding carriers, it's a similar connection. As Asakara already pointed out, fighters have an extremely short lifespan in the ST setting. Even more important, they don't really give any benefit when compared to the larger ships which are just as fast and maneuverable, but just sport better shields and more weapons. Fighters in ST are simply a cheap alternative to bigger ships, used by civilizations who lack the resources for a more sophisticated war machinery and do not put as much emphasis on keeping their soldiers alive as Starfleet.
Do note that the "attack fighters" used by the Federation in DS9 did (a) not have a carrier and (b) actually were refitted Academy trainers / courier vessels that were thrown into battle because the brass was going for an all-or-nothing battle. Regarding the casualties, I really don't see this becoming standard practice. Except if there has been a change in UFP/Starfleet ethics I don't know about yet.

But of course I am also of the opinion that some sort of "faction uniqueness" should be preserved, and I simply see battleships as a trademark of the Klingon Empire. Personally, I would've also preferred if carriers would have stayed out of the game altogether - at least this would have meant that the Negh'var (which should have been the largest ship in the game, imo) would not be dwarfed by one now.

However, I too am of the opinion that something should be done regarding shuttles. Every ship in STO has a shuttle bay (at least Fed-side), and I think it would be neat if there were one or more slots (depending on ship size) you could fill with different shuttlepods, shuttles or even a runabout. A system like that would be somewhat harder to implement than "just" making a new ship, but on the other hand it'd offer something for every Starfleet Captain. The question remaining is what roles such shuttles could play? Aside from the most obvious ones (defense and repair) I also think of scouting, playing decoy and/or jamming enemy scanners, laying mines or placing buoys (for special abilities?), infiltration or collecting resources. I'm sure there are more possibilities, so if you have any ideas ...

That being said, I also think we should be able to launch probes (cooldown ability, affected by console). Not only just to scan for hidden ships, but also to locate that damn last enemy spawn or mission objective on a map you have already cleared of everything else. I'm sure most people know what I'm talking about.

Probes are probably the easiest thing (relatively speaking) to implement. Just have some sort of flare shoot forth from the ship, like in the Starfleet Command games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-15-2010, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
(What they said)
I like this thread, it's exciting.

I could take or leave the fed carrier or battleship. I can also understand the argument that the Federation's mission isn't war so they wouldn't have a battleship. But it's not game-breaking for me, esp. considering the current state of the alpha quadrant. FYI, the Akira was designed originally as a carrier.

I was much more intrigued by the possibility of actually getting to use those shuttlebays that have just been hanging out on the ships. I like the idea of probes helping guide us to new objectives, so here's a thought to give those shuttlecrafts something to do.
1) Anomaly farming. Shuttle runs off to pick up anomaly so that giant ship doesn't have to lumber around to them.
2) Objective hunting. Shuttle leaves ship and whisks off to nearest objective it can find. When it gets there, it parks and lights up like a nav beacon. Of course, if the next objective is enemies, well, my condolences to the shuttle crew, but at least now we're pointed in the right direction!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-15-2010, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKillerNacho View Post
To make myself clear, I do NOT want a Carrier. I want a Battleship, which would be quite different than the Klingon Carrier. Yes, it would have Carrier slots (probably no attack ships, only repair), but it would be WORSE than the Klingon Carrier in this category. It would however, have another different advantage over the Klingon Carrier (maybe more Tac slot or something).

I know what ya mean. Dont take that post as a serious post. And really, the Vo'Quv is more of a battleship with npc escorts rather than a carrier in my opinion.

To make it a carrier in my eyes is to limit it to turrets in it's weapon slots and add about 2 or 3more deployable slots with more unique types of deployables. As with a carrier, the ship itself is not a weapon, its deployables are its main weapons. Sure they do have weapons to defend themselves, but it is not the armament of a warship, which is what the Vo'Quv has since it can go with any type of weapon in the game.

The deployables should be specialized:
Interceptors/escorts - energy weapons only, the fastest and 2nd most maneuverable

Attack Fighters - 2nd fastest, most maneuverable, utilizes both energy and projectile(torpedoes)

Attack Bomber - slowest, least maneuverable, heavy projectiles(HYT or high torpedo damage stats) and very weak or no energy weapons.

The Birds-of-Prey should be able to use the cloaking device that the description says they have but never use.

Allow Interceptors/Escorts to have a unique defense ability that allows us to set them to orbit and defend "Own-ship", allied ships or deployables from a hangar. This way we can provide defensive cover for ourselves, a friendly or for our Attack units from other hostile fighters(interceptors). This means the Interceptor/Escort can fulfill the role of hostile deployable hunter/killer...and/or protector of friendly deployables from hostile Interceptor/escorts.

We need a way to call back deployables and re-task hangars in combat...perhaps with a long transiton counter so its not re-tasked instantly.

Lastly, BoP's need to get a speed boost when you full impulse. I hate leaving my birdies behind when my next enemy isn't even visible or is 28+ km away.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-15-2010, 01:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant797 View Post
FYI, the Akira was designed originally as a carrier.
I know - and it would have had 15 torpedo launchers ...
Good thing that the creators of the series didn't really agree with the Akira's designer on these details. Although I have to say that the guy did a marvellous job on the ship, visually speaking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valiant797 View Post
1) Anomaly farming. Shuttle runs off to pick up anomaly so that giant ship doesn't have to lumber around to them.
2) Objective hunting. Shuttle leaves ship and whisks off to nearest objective it can find. When it gets there, it parks and lights up like a nav beacon. Of course, if the next objective is enemies, well, my condolences to the shuttle crew, but at least now we're pointed in the right direction!
"Anomaly farming" is what I meant - I guess your term is more catchy and explains it better. I also like the Objective Hunting idea!

Naturally, the shuttles wouldn't know where to fly to at first, so they'll dart off to where the ship's nose is pointing to. If you send more shuttles (provided you have enough - I'm thinking 1 shuttle per tier?), you could have them spread out, thus covering a greater search pattern. If a shuttle comes into detection range of a viable target (either an anomaly, a mission object or a ship), it would hail its mothership and report its findings, letting you decide what to do next:

Potential options might include scanning the anomaly, returning to base, or trying to harass and "kite" an enemy ship to you (maybe with a chance not triggering the entire spawn if there's more than one?). Obviously, there's a good risk that the shuttle might get destroyed, but I imagine it could also fly some pretty impressive evasive maneuvers (Paris-style), so it'd depend a lot on what kind of enemy is encountered.

The Anomaly Farming would be a very relaxed endgame alternative for people who don't want to bother flying through the entire map by themselves. I could see a Sovereign sending out five shuttles and then just conveniently floating through space on low impulse whilst the objectives are being collected.

Oh well, I can dream.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-15-2010, 09:10 PM
I think we have enough Federation Ships at this time. I would rather efforts be focused on making current ship assets available and viable at the late game stage, and bulking up ship assets for the KDF in order to increase general subscriber levels.

I would say something about keeping the factions unique from one another, etc, but lets face it: That day vanished when the Feds got the Defiant Retrofit with its cloak, and it has only fallen further away with the Excelsior Refit, which is offensive in nature like the KDF ships tend to be. It will continue to fade as the Nebula is introduced with its universal slot.

The Carrier does fill the role of a science-heavy ship for the KDF (though BoPs can also do this, and probably do it better). The Feds already have science ships, which while maligned by some, are probably more effective as ships than the KDF carriers are. I think this would just wind up being a pointless and rarely used ship, or worse be made effective somehow while leaving the KDF carriers in their current less-than-attractive state.

My last point is, the Fed carrier that was introduced in to a Star Trek game at some point (don't even remember the name of the game, you flew a fighter) was one of the least attractive and most non-Star Trek designs I have ever seen. It was, quite literally, a box with warp engines attached to it. Laaaaaaame.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-15-2010, 10:13 PM
I think what the poster is saying is that they want to fly the "Typhoon" and "Jupiter" class ships that the Klingons payers blow up so much in the exploration missions
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-15-2010, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasGideon
My last point is, the Fed carrier that was introduced in to a Star Trek game at some point (don't even remember the name of the game, you flew a fighter) was one of the least attractive and most non-Star Trek designs I have ever seen. It was, quite literally, a box with warp engines attached to it. Laaaaaaame.
The one in Starfleet Command II looked okay: [Image]
But still, suicide fighter runs somehow didn't feel right, even then.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-16-2010, 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenkari
I believe the Dev's said the Carriers wwill be Klingon only.
if thats true then it just goes to show the devs truly hate the klingon faction
personaly id gived the feds the crappy carriers for refits like you lot got.
BUT AS USUAL WHEN IT COMES TO THE KLINGON FACTION CRAPTIC
DRAG THERE HEELS.

patch day & still nothing on the supposed klingon ships .
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19 battleships...
09-16-2010, 04:16 AM
Dont really see it as a priority considering how far behind the KDF is in ..well...everything, but...
IIRC, in ST: III Kirk referred to the Excelsior as "the battleship Excelsior" when the ENT was entering spacedock for decomm...
Haven't seen it yet but what roles do the 2 Excelsior variants play in STO?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-16-2010, 07:29 AM
Wow... A thread about Fed ships in the Fed Gameplay area is turning into yet another KDF complaint thread...

So to the KDF here... I say, call Klingons "Monster Play" and be done with them for a year or more, that way Cryptic can focus on the most played faction.. The Feds.

Next, the most sure-fire way that I have seen the Feds get something in this game is when some KDF players start to really complain about the Feds possibly getting it...

Some KDF loudly said that Feds should never, ever get FvF ("It would be the death of the Klingon Empire")... Feds got FvF.

Some KDF loudly said never ever to Fed cloak ("It is the ONLY thing that makes us unique").. Feds got cloak.

Now it looks like some KDF seem to be saying no to a Fed Carrier... Hmmmm.... Looks like I better get ready for a new ship class soon for my Fed then.
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