Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-13-2010, 07:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I know what you mean, and I love customization just as much - but Starfleet just doesn't look like a military anymore with all those differently clothed people running around. It's not a "uniform" anymore when there is no uniformity amongst people.
I'm inclined to agree with the other comment that Starfleet is more exploration than military (would explain the lack of military-esque hair regulations and saluting, among other things). Even so, even in the contemporary military there's a considerable amount of variation in uniform designs. Standard, modified infantry, mechanic, tank crew, chopper crew, etc. for the Army, and I believe the Navy takes this even further in some situations (which Starfleet would obviously be a closer parallel to anyway).

Granted, that still doesn't quite match the level of diversity we see in STO, but it helps cover it at least a little as far as the "standard" uniforms of the NPCs go.

And I agree, we need crew uniform options.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-13-2010, 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archanubis
As far as I know, Starfleet never really consider itself a truly military organization, despite the weaponry, uniforms, and naval ranking. They can "switch hit" under certain circumstances, like the Dominion War, but they considered themselves more an exploration arm of the Federation than a military one.
All too true, and I often argued the same - although we have seen Captains in the official series both denying as well as reinforcing this. Basically, it's the Roddenberry factor. Since he is gone, Starfleet has taken on a much more militaristic appearance. It gets most visible in the changes from TMP to the Khan movie.

That being said, even pure exploration organizations have uniform regulations when you look at NASA, ESA, etc.

At the end of the day, it's not even a question of military or not military. Imho, Starfleet personnel should be identifiable as such, both by civilians as well as their own comrades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outcrowd1 View Post
Back in the Age of Sail it wasn't too uncommon for captains to have unique uniforms for their own ships. I think officers were expected to more or less conform to their country's standard but since most commanding officers of ships (and infantry & cavalry regiments) were of the nobility and therefore men of means, they often bought the uniforms for the men under their command and so some units had their own unique outfits. I imagine the change to the Starfleet uniform rules being something like this. Each captain gets to set the standard uniform for their ship. All the more reason to give us the ability to set our NPC crew uniforms.
Almost correct! Officers were required to buy their own uniforms, but not to pay for others. A captain could set up certain rules, though, and - if he had enough money - buy uniforms for his crew instead of requiring them to do so from their own pay.

Still, even though this resulted in a wide range of different standards from ship to ship, there was a common theme, mainly regarding the choice of colors. In case of the Royal Navy, its own officers also advocated a minimum of standard because they wanted to be "recognized as being in the service of the Crown". I would think that this applies to Starfleet personnel as well, if only for practical reasons.

Funny detail: "On one occasion in 1853, the commanding officer of HMS Harlequin paid for his boat crews to dress as harlequins, an incident which may have contributed to the Admiralty's decision to adopt a standard uniform."

I can see this happening in Earth Spacedock, too...

But enough of the short lesson on history. I strongly agree that we need to get an option to edit NPC uniforms on our ships. And, if possible, copy "standard layouts" from BO to BO instead of starting from scratch every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerka View Post
would explain the lack of military-esque hair regulations and saluting
Actually, Starfleet HAD hair regulations - and even regulations for wearing jewelry like Bajoran earrings (and those are a religious token!). But yeah, that's gone in STO as well, of course.

Also don't forget court martials (including summary execution) and all those naval traditions we've seen so far. sfdebris had a nice analysis regarding this in his Wrath of Khan Review (do watch his reviews, they're brilliant!):

"The first thing to note is the change in uniform. Specifically: We finally have some. There is a look of real professionalism about the crew now that was severely lacking in TMP. Some people object to this and the likewise naval emphasis of the film, especially Roddenberry, but if you have naval ranks within a naval hierarchy, and are on something called a ship, and that ship has weapons, and is even now preparing for the possibility for fighting someone [...] then objecting to it being portraied as naval and being a military is at best being factious and at worst being childish. If you really insist that this isn't the case, fine. Then you need to loose the weapons and whenever people threaten, have some woman start hitting a little tambourine."

That being said, personally, I would agree that Starfleet isn't a real military - I see it more like some sort of galactic police (both regarding everyday duties as well as how they are organized). But the police still has uniforms, too, so ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-13-2010, 08:24 PM
"Humanitarian and peace-keeping armada" sounds fine to me.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-13-2010, 08:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint01
Whats the 'official' uniform for Starfleet these days? Since we seem to of moved on from the 2379 gray and black uniform... whats the official word now from on high?
This time period didn't have a "canon" uniform but in at least 3 separate realities we saw them use the uniform featured in "TNG:All good things", "VOY:End game" and "DS9:The Visitor".

http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Starfle...2390s-2420s.29
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-14-2010, 07:47 AM
Personally, I decided to go with the LaForge look. Now if only if we could get the rest of the NPC crew on the ship into the same style of uniform.

Though honestly, the game has a ton of potential, it just may take a little bit of time to fully reach said potential.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-14-2010, 08:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Basically, it's the Roddenberry factor. Since he is gone, Starfleet has taken on a much more militaristic appearance. It gets most visible in the changes from TMP to the Khan movie.
That was done with Gene's blessing. The cast (I believe Shatner was the main complainer) hated the TMP uniforms and claimed they caused back pain, like so many of those bad jumpsuits do. Also, the change in theme between TMP and Khan make the more military-like uniforms make sense.

Also, the TMP uniforms make me wanna disco. Not sure why...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-14-2010, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotel
That was done with Gene's blessing. The cast (I believe Shatner was the main complainer) hated the TMP uniforms and claimed they caused back pain, like so many of those bad jumpsuits do. Also, the change in theme between TMP and Khan make the more military-like uniforms make sense.
A similiar problem cropped up with the uniforms used in the first two seasons of TNG. Patrick Stewart's own chiropractor, if the story is true, even suggested that Stewart sue the Star Trek executives over the issue!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-14-2010, 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gotel
That was done with Gene's blessing.
Are you sure? I've always heard that he disliked the "military" style that was so prominent in STII to VI, but until TNG he simply did not have enough influence anymore to go against the others who advocated it. I thought that his opinion regarding this was a given fact, though I've never bothered to find any direct quotes myself.

But I do agree about the theme - even though that is from a purely "out of character" perspective. The plot of TMP and Khan may differ, but Starfleet's duties and everyday business didn't change a bit. The new uniforms were adopted simply because the makers of the movie thought they looked better (same as why we see at least one new uniform in every single ST series). And ... yeah, I guess most people would agree on that.

I mean, if it would have been solely because of back pain, surely there would have been options that were closer to TMP? The uniforms in TNG did never really change so drastically, even though there was a similar issue.

Not that I'm complaining. Personally, I still think that the movie uniforms from ST II-VI and the ones from the last TNG movies are by far the best.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-14-2010, 11:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Not that I'm complaining. Personally, I still think that the movie uniforms from ST II-VI and the ones from the last TNG movies are by far the best.
I agree, completely. I had always hoped that Voyager would update their uniform once they saw what everyone else was wearing :/

I think it has more to do with the material of the uniform for those two. It's a thicker cotton, from the looks of the uniforms. ST 2 through 6 and FC through Nemesis actually look like uniforms, though as opposed to the other designs. Hence why I'm disappointed with the reversion to the red, gold and blue prominence last seen in TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-14-2010, 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprint01
Hence why I'm disappointed with the reversion to the red, gold and blue prominence last seen in TNG, DS9 and Voyager.
If it would be the correct division colours, at least. But now we have red for security? I thought this was dropped after TOS. Oh, well, I guess this was done due to gameplay reasons, easy differentiation for players, one colour per role, etc...

Still, on my Fed ship, engineering and security both wear yellow.
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7893/asaria.jpg

I'm still irritated by NPC Admirals wearing all sorts of colours instead of one. I suppose there is no "Command" division anymore in STO.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:13 AM.