Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Klingon Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
09-19-2010, 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilCell View Post
I like the idea if only so that my Fed ship could "visit" Qo'oS for a little "gun boat diplomacy". (hehe)
Exactly hehe.

Because the idea also works in reverse. If the Feds gain the threshold and keep it, then they could enter the Klingon areas, such as they are LOL.

Of course I think I know how the Devs are going to maybe look at this issue -- as "backdoor open PvP"...but it really would not be that at all -- sure, the Fed "visitors" could be challenged...and perhaps if they enter the Qo'nos (spelling, sorry), they could get mobbed by level 70 NPCs...but it could be fun all the same, but I think that if the Feds could capture and win that PvP threshold, then bragging rights should be allowed and they would deserve them. Cruising the Klingon area in their gunboat is one way to show bragging rights.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
09-19-2010, 08:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
My points and ideas are not meant to be offensive to you. Real life always takes precedence -- I also do not have a lot of time to spend "in game" and I also am employed, for which I am thankful in these times.

Look -- the above idea is entirely optional. In fact, should something like this be implemented, absolutely nothing would change for the player who is content to do the KDF nebula grinds. That individual would not be required or forced to do anything at all different. The game simply does not change. All this idea does is to provide to the Klingon faction two things -- first of all, to make PvP actually meaningful to the point where it impacts the gameworld. This is done in many MMOs - In fact, WoW, which is brought up often for comparison as an MMO to others, has this very same functionality built in where capturing a certain area opens up shops and NPCs to that particular faction. This idea is not all that different. Secondly, this is an easy way to provide a lot more PvE options and leveling to Klingon players without having to reinvent the wheel. It is economical and efficient, and much easier to do than to create content entirely from scratch. This type of idea would supplement, not replace Klingon PvE.

As another poster has pointed out, many of the Federation missions are faction neutral. All of the episodes that involve fighting or interating with Romulans, Cardassians, and Borg would require little modification to allow Klingon players to do those missions. Those missions that are directly against Klingon NPCS could be closed to us, or could be treated as a mission against a rogue house.

Bottom line -- this is just an idea. I do not work for Cryptic, and it could be that the entire idea simply is not feasible, but it is just an idea. This idea does not limit gameplay for anyone -- KDF current content simply would not change, and acquisition of the PvP threshold would be temporary and reset every week. If the KDF wins the threshhold early on, that would be a week of access to one or more Federation territories...when that week is up, the threshold is set back to zero, and the process starts again.

If my "hard working" comment got to you -- I apologize. That was a bit of "tongue in cheek" so to speak. I know that there are KDF players that are pure PvE...but to be candid, those individuals are very much in the minority on the KDF side as far as I know. Practically every KDF player PvPs to some extend -- some more than others -- but without PvPing....the level grind has to be extremely tedious.
I understand you want to bennifit the KDF faction. However, answer this question: how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time? How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time? Once again, I support the idea of captuable territories. However, in a faction that is already starved for content, it makes no sense to add new content but only have it availible occasionally.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
09-19-2010, 10:10 AM
Nagus,

I do understand what you are saying...but think of it this way...

Would you rather wait two years to get what the Feds have now....or have something that is at least conditionally accessible now?

I get it that you don't like PvP. There are many, many players for which PvP is not their cup of tea...but unfortunately in this game, the primary way for a Klingon character to level is through PvP -- it can be done without a single PvP battle, true...it just takes twice as long. For that reason, most Klingon players do PvP at least a little bit. Some PvP all the time. That is their playstyle.

The other option is to have tons of KDF content added immediately that would bring us up to the Feds level...and the Devs have already said that is not going to happen due to manpower constraints...

So -- if we want more options, and more PvE, then we need to work with what we've got and come up with unique ideas to address the issues.

Please -- if you have an idea, then share it. Everybody listens, and no idea is out of bounds (as long as you do not break TOS lol).

For me...I am not PvP crazy...but I do like it, mostly because of the teamwork aspect of PvP...but one of my own wishes (shared by many in the community) is for PvP to actually mean something -- to have an impact on gameplay, etc. There are different ways to do this...this is possibly one.

As far as instancing goes...I don't see how hard it could possibly be to simply substitute a Klingon ship into a Federation mission -- the mission does not need to be rewritten, the text could be almost entirely the same, the outcomes the same, the rewards even the same. This is especially true of the Romulan missions I think. Although it might be too much to ask...but it would also be nice if we could raid the Federation supply lines -- maybe have a daily where if we manage to sweep all those Fed trade ships out of their home sector we get emblems or something.

The purpose of this idea, and this thread is to spark free-flowing idea sharing and thoughts. So...if you do have a better idea, or want to contribute, please do so. I am interested in hearing all ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
09-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
Nagus,

I do understand what you are saying...but think of it this way...

Would you rather wait two years to get what the Feds have now....or have something that is at least conditionally accessible now?
I might have simply overlooked it, but I didnt see your answers to the questions I asked in my last post, so here they are again:

"how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time? How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
So...if you do have a better idea, or want to contribute, please do so. I am interested in hearing all ideas.
Actually, I already did. Here is the quote from an earlier post:

"If anything, maybe the faction that controls the territory gets extra rewards or bonuses for the missions in question."

Once more, I am all for capturable territores in PvP. However, I still dont understand why you think content only being available part of the time is somehow better than it being available all of the time. Please explain your answers to my questions above so I can understand your reasoning here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
09-19-2010, 10:32 AM
Let's end this. The Devs are never going to make PvP mandatory for anything. Plain, simple, true.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
09-19-2010, 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
I might have simply overlooked it, but I didnt see your answers to the questions I asked in my last post, so here they are again:

"how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time? How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time?"



Actually, I already did. Here is the quote from an earlier post:

"If anything, maybe the faction that controls the territory gets extra rewards or bonuses for the missions in question."

Once more, I am all for capturable territores in PvP. However, I still dont understand why you think content only being available part of the time is somehow better than it being available all of the time. Please explain your answers to my questions above so I can understand your reasoning here.

Okay,

Last try. I honestly thought I had addressed the questions...maybe it is a matter of language or misunderstanding the concepts behind the idea, I don't know. I had thought it was pretty self-evident. I guess that in a literal-minded way, I should break it down again. Here goes.

Question 1: how does creating a bunch of new KDF content but only making it availible PART of the time MORE bennificial than making it available ALL of the time?

First of all, it is not NEW content. It is content that ALREADY exists -- it just is not open to Klingon Players at this point because it all exists in Federation space. The missions are ALREADY THERE, as are the rewards, the NPCs, what have you. Secondly, having it availabe for PART of the time is better than NEVER HAVING IT ALL. I think that the disconnect is that you think this would be entirely new content -- it isn't. It simply leverages what already exists as content, however, because it is Fed content in Fed areas, Klingons cannot simply waltz in an do those missions...so...tie it to PvP -- make it so that we technically occupy that territory through a PvP "threshold" system that allows a faction to win access to previously forbidden areas. That is the basic idea.

Question 2: How is a person not being able to do part of the KDF content depending on how long they have to play or what time they log on MORE bennificial to the faction than them being able to do it any time? Once again, it is a matter of OPTIONS. This plan would ADD TO/SUPPLEMENT THE KLINGON CONTENT. The existing content would not diminish in any way...this would be supplementat content that could be played by the faction IF IT IS EARNED BY THAT FACTION through the threshold system.

But hey...as the above poster pointed out...it is somewhat doubtful that Cryptic would tie anything directly to PvP in this manner.

Oh well. It was just an idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
09-19-2010, 01:04 PM
yes to new pvp war sectors.

no to any modification of old sectors torwards pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
09-19-2010, 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
First of all, it is not NEW content. It is content that ALREADY exists -- it just is not open to Klingon Players at this point because it all exists in Federation space. The missions are ALREADY THERE, as are the rewards, the NPCs, what have you. Secondly, having it availabe for PART of the time is better than NEVER HAVING IT ALL. I think that the disconnect is that you think this would be entirely new content -- it isn't.
When I say "new", I mean new to the KDF faction, not new to the game. I understand your talking about converting Fed episodes to be playable by KDF. Moving on, I'm not sure why you seem to think the choices are either your idea or nothing, because they ALSO have the choice of making them playable ALL the time. So once more, IF the Devs actually took the time to convert these episodes to KDF, why should they choose to make them only available part of the time instead of all the time?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
09-19-2010, 10:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
When I say "new", I mean new to the KDF faction, not new to the game. I understand your talking about converting Fed episodes to be playable by KDF. Moving on, I'm not sure why you seem to think the choices are either your idea or nothing, because they ALSO have the choice of making them playable ALL the time. So once more, IF the Devs actually took the time to convert these episodes to KDF, why should they choose to make them only available part of the time instead of all the time?
Ah well.

I hope I did not come across as "my way or the highway" lol. Perhaps in attempting to communicate the elegant simplicity of the concept, I got lost in the wording, and it sounded like this was the only solution to the woes regarding Klingon play.

It most definitely isn't.

Other options:

1. The devs create pure Klingon content and bring us more on par with the Federation. As far as I know, this is the plan as it stands right now. The problem is that there are limited resources, and this is going to take a great deal of time and man-hours to accomplish. Although time estimates are probably really wild guesses...I have heard it bandied about that 2 years is what is needed in order for the Klingon faction to be on equal footing with the Federation content that is present today. Of course, in 2 years, the Feds will be even further advanced.

The one thing that offsets this is that the Devs are releasing "universal" content -- the dailies and weeklies that can be done by both sides. It is definitely a step in the right direction, but it is not enough to make the two factions anywhere near co-equal..but in the long run it can certainly offset some of the lack of Klingon PvE content significantly.

2. There has been some talk in the forums regarding the possibility of merging the two factions into a single faction - basically Federation and Klingons become co-equal parties in a single alliance. This is just player talk, and the devs (as far as I know) do not take this idea seriously. Still, in fairlness, I mention it because it is another idea that is floating around out there.

3. Do away with the Klingon faction entirely. This has also been bandied around some by the player base...but once again, I don't think that this is an option, and I do not think that the Devs consider this a serious possibillity, however, once again in the interest of fairness, it is mentioned here.

4. My idea - to tie PvE access to Federation content based on a threshold PvP system. This is actually not a new idea to MMOs, as many MMOs have this type of system, or a system that is similar, in place. Personally, I like this idea a bit better than totally open PvP -- don't get me wrong, I think that open PvP could be interesting...but the raw, unaltered truth is that the Klingon Empire is probably outnumberd 10 to one or better at most times during a 24 hour day. In situations like these...it really does not matter how good of a PvPer you are -- you are going to go down under the sheer numbers...so open PvP, although it looks and sounds like a good idea, would probably mean being crushed by the weight of the Federation player base.

The end goal is to make the Klingon faction more relevant, with more options, more content, and things to do. If I had my wish...I would desire more "pure" Klingon content that captures the playstyle, culture, society, and attitudes within the Klingon stereotype...but that is somewhat unlikely, unfortunately -- at least it is unlikely in the short term.

You know, Nagus..I went back and read some of your past posts just to see where you stood on issues...and at one time you were all for an open PvP system if I read you correctly. So....why the change of heart?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Obviously we all have a list of things we'd like to see added to the Klingon faction, but what is the #1 thing at the top of your list? Mine would be an open PvP sector. Whats yours?
Did I read you wrong in that at the start of this thread you were against PvP content in general, and that you were happy just grinding away with the limited Klingon faction PvE (nebulas, etc)?

Ah well. It really does not matter. It is nice to have pipe dreams, I guess, and entertaining in its own way, too. All that I can really say for certain is that I am looking forward to new Klingon content - and will be happy when it arrives, regardless of its form.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
09-19-2010, 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZTempest
Ah well.

I hope I did not come across as "my way or the highway" lol. Perhaps in attempting to communicate the elegant simplicity of the concept, I got lost in the wording, and it sounded like this was the only solution to the woes regarding Klingon play.

It most definitely isn't.

Other options:

1. The devs create pure Klingon content and bring us more on par with the Federation. As far as I know, this is the plan as it stands right now. The problem is that there are limited resources, and this is going to take a great deal of time and man-hours to accomplish. Although time estimates are probably really wild guesses...I have heard it bandied about that 2 years is what is needed in order for the Klingon faction to be on equal footing with the Federation content that is present today. Of course, in 2 years, the Feds will be even further advanced.

The one thing that offsets this is that the Devs are releasing "universal" content -- the dailies and weeklies that can be done by both sides. It is definitely a step in the right direction, but it is not enough to make the two factions anywhere near co-equal..but in the long run it can certainly offset some of the lack of Klingon PvE content significantly.

2. There has been some talk in the forums regarding the possibility of merging the two factions into a single faction - basically Federation and Klingons become co-equal parties in a single alliance. This is just player talk, and the devs (as far as I know) do not take this idea seriously. Still, in fairlness, I mention it because it is another idea that is floating around out there.

3. Do away with the Klingon faction entirely. This has also been bandied around some by the player base...but once again, I don't think that this is an option, and I do not think that the Devs consider this a serious possibillity, however, once again in the interest of fairness, it is mentioned here.

4. My idea - to tie PvE access to Federation content based on a threshold PvP system. This is actually not a new idea to MMOs, as many MMOs have this type of system, or a system that is similar, in place. Personally, I like this idea a bit better than totally open PvP -- don't get me wrong, I think that open PvP could be interesting...but the raw, unaltered truth is that the Klingon Empire is probably outnumberd 10 to one or better at most times during a 24 hour day. In situations like these...it really does not matter how good of a PvPer you are -- you are going to go down under the sheer numbers...so open PvP, although it looks and sounds like a good idea, would probably mean being crushed by the weight of the Federation player base.

The end goal is to make the Klingon faction more relevant, with more options, more content, and things to do. If I had my wish...I would desire more "pure" Klingon content that captures the playstyle, culture, society, and attitudes within the Klingon stereotype...but that is somewhat unlikely, unfortunately -- at least it is unlikely in the short term.

You know, Nagus..I went back and read some of your past posts just to see where you stood on issues...and at one time you were all for an open PvP system if I read you correctly. So....why the change of heart?



Did I read you wrong in that at the start of this thread you were against PvP content in general, and that you were happy just grinding away with the limited Klingon faction PvE (nebulas, etc)?

Ah well. It really does not matter. It is nice to have pipe dreams, I guess, and entertaining in its own way, too. All that I can really say for certain is that I am looking forward to new Klingon content - and will be happy when it arrives, regardless of its form.
I hate to say this, but I really dont understand why you keep avoiding my actual question. My question, as posed in my previous post is:

If the Devs actually take the time to convert the Fed episodes to be playable by KDF, why do you think it is better to only have them available part of them time rather than all of the time?

Alternative wording:

You think content that is only available part of the time is better than content that is available all the time because _____________?

Alternative wording:

Pick one of the following:

A) content that is only available part of the time

B) content that is available all of the time

Why do you pick A instead of B?

I really dont know how to word that to make the meaning any clearer, and I would REALLY like to hear your answer to that specific question. Now, to actually answer YOUR question, my stance on PvP has not changed at all from the quote you posted. Just read my 2nd reply in this thread.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:47 AM.