Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
09-21-2010, 10:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankah View Post
come to a complete stop in PvP and just rotate for escorts, and bigger ships just stop.

WTF, you know that you loose close to 60% bonus Defence doing that right ? i see this almost all the time, especially Escorts.
??? Sorry for not reading the whole thread, but mastery of your engines and speed is crucial for pilots of nimble ships.

1. Get a ship that can turn
2. Tractor beam, warp plasma fart, kill one's engines, do whatever you want here (looking at you, bop flyboys)
3. Keep yourself in their rear, and have your forward weaps trained on him
4. For Q's sake, learn to use shield balancing/hardening/window washing while employing offensive cooldowns
5. Charged particle burst is a great stun EDIT: not cpb, you know that 3sec stun ability... can't remember what it's called
6. Pew pew pew and more pew
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
09-21-2010, 10:56 AM
standing still or low engine speed not only lowers your defense but ups critical chances hence why you see chain stunning, serial tractor beams and BTES as prominent staples among every ship. Because of the crit chances rocketing through the roof as your speed is decreased the more you see it. I see sci ships spamming tractors, power drains, and stuns, I see cruisers spamming EWP and BTES, and escorts that use BTES.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
09-21-2010, 11:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Please elaborate more, I find this subject of interest.
Does it require specific equipment use? battery use? Ability use? Being a BoP captain speed is more useful than any other defense to me.
I can't remember where I read this, but I've tested the numbers and they seem to work. The basic formula is:

Defense = ( 2.5% * Impulse Speed ) - 15%, with a base cap of 50% (so you don't get any benefit beyond Impulse 26).

You can get an additional 10% on top of the base cap with the Elusive trait, and another 15% by maxing out the Combat Maneuvers skill. I think that's where the 75% Defense comes from.

Edit: Please note that it's impulse speed, not impulse percent, that contributes to defense. Your actual speed is determined both by impulse percent and your current engine power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
09-21-2010, 11:40 AM
The defense bonus is capped at 65% (75% for elusive trait), so going faster - even with batteries EPtE, etc will not increase your defense bonus. However, they are still useful against any hold powers (gravity well, tractor beam etc). Also, if you go out of range of enemy weapons, then they wont hurt ya! (obviously)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
09-21-2010, 12:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankah View Post
come to a complete stop in PvP and just rotate for escorts, and bigger ships just stop.

WTF, you know that you loose close to 60% bonus Defence doing that right ? i see this almost all the time, especially Escorts.
I've never seen this being done by bigger ships; I tried this myself some times as a "lure" tactic when, say, I had my aft tricobalt launcher on cooldown but the fore one ready to fire (and I could not outmaneuver a trailing ship).
Surprisingly enough, most captains just fall for it and fly directly over and then ahead of my ship, being hit with a nice, cuddly tricobald warhead

As for the escort's turreting, it's just silly; It's easy to take them out, especially if you manage to approach from behind, but the fact that people implement that kind of "tactic" with some success tells that there is indeed something wrong with the 4xDHC/CSV spamming builds in the game...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
09-21-2010, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I was off the belief that the (+def%bonus) of moving at top speed was capped at roughly 65% and did not think anything more helpful could be added to it or used along with it to increase one's defense.

Please elaborate more, I find this subject of interest.
Does it require specific equipment use? battery use? Ability use? Being a BoP captain speed is more useful than any other defense to me.
Indeed I think someone mentioned it its capped at 65... if you took allusive trait its +10 so 75.

Accuracy and Defense are related... its what makes +acc weapons a good idea... if I stop you and your defense rating is say -15... and I hit you with a de buff that drops you say -24 your now at -39

So now if I have +20 accuracy weapon with a ship accuracy of say +25... you can think of that as -84... which in cryptic math means I do around 42% more damage... my crit chance goes up (who knows the cryptic math on that ) and cri severity goes up I am guessing abit around 42% as well... so a 8000k Crit just turned into a 11200 which has a cri severity bounus as well meaning I hit you for a nice big 16k Crit.

So bottom line run Eject Warp Plasma... Tractors... Stuns... Target Engines... what ever you can do to stop people and your crit numbers and severity will sky rocket.


EDIT
on the flip side if you have 65 defense and I have 20 acc and 25 on ship and debuff you for 24 almost nets out to zero... which means your still alive and not getting smacked around like a Crit Mule.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
09-21-2010, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Indeed I think someone mentioned it its capped at 65... if you took allusive trait its +10 so 75.

Accuracy and Defense are related... its what makes +acc weapons a good idea... if I stop you and your defense rating is say -15... and I hit you with a de buff that drops you say -24 your now at -39

So now if I have +20 accuracy weapon with a ship accuracy of say +25... you can think of that as -84... which in cryptic math means I do around 42% more damage... my crit chance goes up (who knows the cryptic math on that ) and cri severity goes up I am guessing abit around 42% as well... so a 8000k Crit just turned into a 11200 which has a cri severity bounus as well meaning I hit you for a nice big 16k Crit.

So bottom line run Eject Warp Plasma... Tractors... Stuns... Target Engines... what ever you can do to stop people and your crit numbers and severity will sky rocket.


EDIT
on the flip side if you have 65 defense and I have 20 acc and 25 on ship and debuff you for 24 almost nets out to zero... which means your still alive and not getting smacked around like a Crit Mule.
Thanks, that explains a great deal and I never thought of the ellusive trait being that helpful until now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolikos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzaal
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and thank all of you as well for your input and observations.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
09-21-2010, 04:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankah View Post
come to a complete stop in PvP and just rotate for escorts, and bigger ships just stop.

WTF, you know that you loose close to 60% bonus Defence doing that right ? i see this almost all the time, especially Escorts.
Klingon's do it a lot too but not as much as the Feds.

These people are always my first target and the first to pop.

If I did it, I would lose 68.5% bonus Defence, Something I would rather hold onto.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
09-21-2010, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quetzaal
The defense bonus is capped at 65% (75% for elusive trait), so going faster - even with batteries EPtE, etc will not increase your defense bonus. However, they are still useful against any hold powers (gravity well, tractor beam etc). Also, if you go out of range of enemy weapons, then they wont hurt ya! (obviously)
wrong, having 55 points in your base engine power levels = 67.5% ish bonus defence with MK X purple Combat impulse engines from K7.

Like all stats its capped at 75% and the only moved adding on to this is Evasive maneuvers, going over this is supposed to add the excess to turn rate but does not at this point, devs said a fix will come soon.

Just like going over 75% acc on your weapons add the excess to crit.

Just look at my Ships combat stats in my Photo bucket account linked in my Sig.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
09-21-2010, 05:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanharn View Post
wrong, having 55 points in your base engine power levels = 67.5% ish bonus defence with MK X purple Combat impulse engines from K7.

Like all stats its capped at 75% and the only moved adding on to this is Evasive maneuvers, going over this is supposed to add the excess to turn rate but does not at this point, devs said a fix will come soon.

Just like going over 75% acc on your weapons add the excess to crit.

Just look at my Ships combat stats in my Photo bucket account linked in my Sig.
Why would you run combat engines at 55 power? They will be less effective than hyper or normal. Also hyper will give a much bigger speed boost with evasive maneuvers.

As to why you get 75%, that is because you have the trait 'elusive', which will cap out at 75%. I also have this trait and as such I run my engines just above the speed required to get 75%. That way I get full defense bonus, while maximum time shooting at the target.
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