Go Back   Star Trek Online > Feedback > Klingon Gameplay
Login

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
The KDF being designed as a 90% pvp-centric faction is slowly killing the enjoyment of the faction for new players as they progress to the maximum rank of LG and find that there is nothing left to do but pvp.
Without meaningful and storyline driven pve content the KDF faction quickly becomes boring to those who are not fans of the KDF to begin with or who are not avid fans of pvp combat in general.
Those players whodo not like, find little pleasure or lack the skills to compete with more experienced pvp'ers
will have little reason to stick with and enjoy any pvp-centric toons they may possess. This hurts the faction as a whole and does not increase the draw of said pvp-faction.

Secondly, the lack of pve leads to the new and older fans of the KDF to specialize in iether one or the other of the pvp based choices that this faction has, space or ground. This leads to specific expendeture of skill points to maximize thier effectiveness in one of the two pvp arena formats and leads to a self-crippling efffectivenss in what little pve content that does exist.
Specifically, if a KDF player wishes to compete at the level LG in space pvp then said KDF player will most likely never spend any points in the ground based skills and vice-versa a ground pvp player will have less points to spend in space based skills overall, thus making the less the prime effective in the later.

Pvp-centric or monster play, and yes its really a polished version of monster play, is a self defeating design for any faction within the STO game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-25-2010, 10:07 PM
Would have to disagree with this completely.

I know a lot of Klingon players would be completely happy for no PVE content at all, as long as we had a properly implemented PVP system, which included OPEN PVP with rewards and gear and a dynamic territory that can change hands with possibility of fleet owned bases and sectors, which included PVP missions and such, bounty system you can put price on killing another player, trophy's. Proper player and fleet stat tracking. Access to equivalent gear through PVP missions. ETC ETC

The STF missions that are open to Klingons nobody plays or even bothers with, compared to the fed side where everyone on fed does STF missions.

Even now the only reason my fleet does Klingon PVE missions is to get more emblems, even then we try to speed run them as fast as possible and avoid ground combat completely.

Adding more AI missions is just meh, and those of us that still play klingon the majority of the time do not want it.

Reason Klingon are dying is not because a lack of pve content, back a lack of proper PVP content.

Outside of limited 5v5 arena matches, there is nothing for a Klingon to do except shoot crying feds in Kerat all day, and even that gets boring after awhile so they log off.

You want to expand the Klingon faction, give us open PVP, more pvp game types, some more ships, and some unique stuff that doesn't suck balls (Kar’Fi Carrier) and stop giving our tech (cloak and unique bo slots) to feds.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-25-2010, 10:12 PM
We are never going to have a fully open PvP system. The reality is that no matter what systems Cryptic puts in that related to PvP they are always going to cater to the casual and mostly PvE player. So we have two choices be a PvP step-child faction who will never see meaningful PvP, or admit that we need some balance between PvP and PvE, so they can justify spending resources on us.

For instance Dstahl has mentioned wanting to do some sort of territory control system - this system is never going to be purely PvP simply because any investment they make in said system has to give them enough return on that investment, and their player base is largely PvEers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-26-2010, 08:24 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
The STF missions that are open to Klingons nobody plays or even bothers with, compared to the fed side where everyone on fed does STF missions.
My fleet actually arranges and does these missions, but very often since it is a pain to do any ground combat when one is skilled for space.

Quote:
Even now the only reason my fleet does Klingon PVE missions is to get more emblems, even then we try to speed run them as fast as possible and avoid ground combat completely.
That also lies at the heart of the issue. We have lost our hearts as KLingons and become nothing more than farmers and monsters for the feds to do battle against. We have no reason to be Klingon anymore, no pride in what we are other than an adversary to the favored child.

Quote:
Outside of limited 5v5 arena matches, there is nothing for a Klingon to do except shoot crying feds in Kerat all day, and even that gets boring after awhile so they log off.
Hence why would any casual pve players care to stick with the KDF or any faction other than fed for longer than it takes to max rank? Without an influx of player to bolster our faction, the Dev's will never see reason to give us more than a trickle of new content at best while the feds enjoy cups that runneth over.

Quote:
You want to expand the Klingon faction, give us open PVP, more pvp game types, some more ships, and some unique stuff that doesn't suck balls (Kar’Fi Carrier) and stop giving our tech (cloak and unique bo slots) to feds.
I agree the pvp in STO has become boring and stale because of the monotony of every day is the same as the day before. SO stale in fact that KDF pvp'ers rarely even attempt to win and most just attack the feds like ravenous beasts waiting for the match to be over so emblems can be collected. We have no heart anymore and its no wonder the feds no longer fear our wrath.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-26-2010, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
Would have to disagree with this completely.
I agree with Roach. In the context of STO, KDF needs to have a well rounded PVE experience that allows players to heavily rely on it through the level up process.

It's just the way STO is designed. Any and every faction needs to be able to have PVE as meat and potatoes. And PVP as the side dish or desert.

Quote:
I know a lot of Klingon players would be completely happy for no PVE content at all, as long as we had a properly implemented PVP system,
Therein lies the rub. PVP in STO isn't deep, strong or popular enough to carry players from 1 to 51. It would be nice if it was like that. But they didn't design it that way back when they had the time and staff and resources to do so. This far after launch, after this many patches, I think their own track record speaks for itslef. That probably sounds way more harsh than it is intended. What I'm trying to say is ... any PVP improvements they make will be based off what's already there and be small steps moving forward from what they have. Since what they have isn't quite what you're talking about ... PVP's evolution probably isn't going to end up the way you, I or a bunch of others would have preferred it to be.

Since STO is what it is (which includes a lot of good stuff mind you) ... I think Roach makes a very compelling point that more PVE options are needed for the KDF as well as any other planned factions that get here in the future (Romulans, Cardassians, Horta even).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-26-2010, 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
Would have to disagree with this completely.
You can disagree all you want, but the fact of the matter is the only real difference between the faction that is played the most(Feds) and the faction that is played the least(KDF) is content. As it turns out, MMO players in general seem to like content for some strange reason, and will gravitate to the faction that has the most in a multi-faction game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-27-2010, 01:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
Would have to disagree with this completely.

I know a lot of Klingon players would be completely happy for no PVE content at all, as long as we had a properly implemented PVP system
But you are already a Klingon player.
It's nice to keep you around, but if the Klingon faction remains as small as it is, there is little incentive to add stuff to the faction. Expanding PvP is a noble goal and would probably be good for the game and some of its population, but without a solid storyline to level up to, most players will still think that they are better off with their Federation characters.

The casual gamer is probably always the majority and a faction that won't draw him in can't thrive. Why create new KDF customziation options when only a tiny subset of overall players will benefit from it? Why develop new ships with new special abilties if only a tiny subset of overall players will benefit from it?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-27-2010, 04:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
You can disagree all you want, but the fact of the matter is the only real difference between the faction that is played the most(Feds) and the faction that is played the least(KDF) is content. As it turns out, MMO players in general seem to like content for some strange reason, and will gravitate to the faction that has the most in a multi-faction game.
Actually klinks could have 10 times more content. But feds would still be more popular, in any multi race MMO the human race is always the most popular choice.

If klinks where actually playable on launch, Instead of having to make a fed then maybe things wouldnt be so bad, if most sto players are casual then which casual player is going to bother to level both and fed and a klink.


So you want to grow the KDF faction, then i think the new series missions are a great idea. However the fatal mistake the devs have made is that the missions are identical for both factions, except for a wall of text

You warp in from the same point, beam down to the same point, fight the same NPCS in the same order, and worst of all the same rewards are offered on completion.

You want to get PVE players into klingon faction then at least give them a reason to play KDF, change up the missions more so they still experience the same universal events, but they play out differently or different things happen.

(so the FEDs cracked the puzzle, maybe the Klingons didn't have the patience and just bombed the place from orbit) <---- SOMETHING LIKE THIS MAKE IT DIFFERENT

And make the rewards different from FED ones. So FEDs recruited a breen tac officer, maybe klingons salvaged a breen shield dampener, something like this. Make it DIFFERENT.

That way when people play the series missions as klingon they say "oh wow that was different and cool"
not "this feels exactly the same as on my fed toon, meh boring"


I still think the devs focus on KDF content should still be primarily PVP though, with new ships, skins, gear, maps, and some form of open PVP sector space with dynamic territory control and fleet owned bases with pvp missions.

They can keep the series missions as KDF PVE content for those that want it.

The key is to not making them identical to the FED ones and to make them give different rewards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-27-2010, 07:15 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
Actually klinks could have 10 times more content. But feds would still be more popular, in any multi race MMO the human race is always the most popular choice.
I can not argue that and do not expect an equal amount of pve content for the KDF. Repeatible patrol missions at each planetary system in our limited sector blocks like what the feds have ingame would go a long way to making for a better pve experience. Of course any true storyline missions that the Dev's can crank out would also rock.

Quote:
If klinks where actually playable on launch, Instead of having to make a fed then maybe things wouldnt be so bad, if most sto players are casual then which casual player is going to bother to level both and fed and a klink.
To be honest the KDF should have been the first new update after the game had been out a while and had time to be a little more refined, but thats just my opinion.


Quote:
So you want to grow the KDF faction, then i think the new series missions are a great idea. However the fatal mistake the devs have made is that the missions are identical for both factions, except for a wall of text
No arguements from me. I like the new agnostic-content, but relish the idea of some true KDF storyline missions. The Fekiri one's have shown that the Dev's know what they're doing when it comes to KDF missions

Quote:
You want to get PVE players into klingon faction then at least give them a reason to play KDF, change up the missions more so they still experience the same universal events, but they play out differently or different things happen.
I agree, the sense of KDF individuality is not there.

Quote:
And make the rewards different from FED ones. So FEDs recruited a breen tac officer, maybe klingons salvaged a breen shield dampener, something like this. Make it DIFFERENT.
I like the officer, but yes a different reward would been nice.

Quote:
That way when people play the series missions as klingon they say "oh wow that was different and cool"
not "this feels exactly the same as on my fed toon, meh boring"
Once again I agree. The re-skinned feel is not a draw for the casual player to try a KDF alt.


Quote:
I still think the devs focus on KDF content should still be primarily PVP though, with new ships, skins, gear, maps, and some form of open PVP sector space with dynamic territory control and fleet owned bases with pvp missions.

They can keep the series missions as KDF PVE content for those that want it.

The key is to not making them identical to the FED ones and to make them give different rewards.
I'm not disagreeing. We do need more ships, gear and an expanded pvp format to play in if we are to be expected compete with the feds (and thier plethera of items) in pvp and be a primarily pvp based faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-27-2010, 09:31 AM
There are two problems with focusing primarily on PvP for the Klingons. As I've said in many places, any changes to PvP that come are changes that are going to try and bring the more casual player into the system. They are not changes that are going to make PvP itself deeper and more engaging.

The primary focus for Cryptic is casual player - why do you think we have boxing match PvP as it is? It is something that a casual player can jump into complete their daily and jump out of back into PvE. Even if we get something with territory control there will (at least on the Fed side) be a PvE component to it as well. If we continue to get less and less of the PvE we will continue to have less and less of the casual player population.

All but a handful of players who supported the PvP-centric idea given to us at the 11th hour have left STO because of the state of PvP, but even when they were around we were in a large minority. Go to the main forum "STO Discussions" and see how many players say "I was always waiting for the Klingons to get PvE before playing them". The future of STO is not in PvP players and it never will be, if we are going to continue to exist as a faction we must bring these casual players in, and we will only do this with PvE.

I loved the new weekly missions, but having done them on 3 Feds and 4 Klinks so far I can tell you the Klink side needs a bit of a tweak storywise. We need more, not as much as the Feds, but still more of our own faction stories to draw people in. We need a house system to rival the Fed Diplomatic Corps. We need access to content in Roumlan and Cardassian space. We need at least one more Klingon only sector. These things, and really they are not asking that much comparatively. If the weeklies proved anything it is that PvE rules STO and if we are to have a future we need are own brand of PvE to give us a solid foundation.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:17 PM.