Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
10-04-2010, 01:07 PM
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzs...MjNiMWVh&hl=en

there, a pic, 40min infected, only one of many toon. gave up grinding it it long ago.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
10-04-2010, 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WEII
did i say i cant do inflected. heck i've over 300 valaor over 3 toons and can do infected in 45 mins.

5. the whole fight eventually take a lot longer than it should, if only the cruiser can consistently take the agro.

read it, LONGER than it should, because cruiser cant always keep agro does it force the dps class to run away.

I'll say this again since it apparently needs to be.

Hazard emitters from 2-3 people can be up continuously on whatever escort is tanking. Hazard emitters=no shield neutralizer shield neutralizing. The cruiser can then heal the escort however else it needs to be healed. Try team work, it works.

And you know what else works? Target weapons 3, like I said before. The tac cube will neutralize your shields endlessly, but will rarely actually be able to fire a shot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
10-04-2010, 01:22 PM
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzs...MjNiMWVh&hl=en

so will ppl stop trying to give advice on how to kill stuff. i know all the tricks.

this is only a post about....

why dont this mmo have any taunt or threat generation powers like any other mmo. eventually when sto make a proper raid (ie not a 5 man instance), maybe a very hard fleet action, there will be a need for taunt power.

heck, every STF in this game is easier than deadmins, it is really just child's play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
10-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WEII

why dont this mmo have any taunt or threat generation powers like any other mmo. eventually when sto make a proper raid (ie not a 5 man instance), maybe a very hard fleet action, there will be a need for taunt power.

heck, every STF in this game is easier than deadmins, it is really just child's play.
Because it doesn't need taunt powers. You support your team. Period. Whoever has aggro needs support from the team. If the team does not do that, then they're not playing it well.

Everyone can have heals in STO. Everyone has access to some debuffs/crowd control. There is simply no need for taunting, because you are supposed to work together.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
10-04-2010, 01:39 PM
read...

5. the whole fight eventually take a lot longer than it should, if only the cruiser can consistently take the agro.

longer...

eventually when sto make a proper raid (ie not a 5 man instance), maybe a very hard fleet action, there will be a need for taunt power.

eventully

heck, every STF in this game is easier than deadmins, it is really just child's play.

stf is child's play
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
10-04-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
Because it doesn't need taunt powers. You support your team. Period. Whoever has aggro needs support from the team. If the team does not do that, then they're not playing it well.

Everyone can have heals in STO. Everyone has access to some debuffs/crowd control. There is simply no need for taunting, because you are supposed to work together.
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzs...MjNiMWVh&hl=en

like i said. i already know all the tricks. look above
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
10-04-2010, 10:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WEII
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0Bzs...MjNiMWVh&hl=en

like i said. i already know all the tricks. look above
Well apparently you don't because (1.) you keep saying the same thing over and over despite others producing information to the contrary and (2.) that doesn't show any tricks; it's just a screenshot showing you have beaten a mission 15 times in spite of your horrible spelling and limited notions of what ships are capable of. You seem stuck in one way thinking, namely the tank-heal-dps trinity instead of developing strategies and tactics.

As you can see from the various suggestions in this thread, there are multiple ways to approach combat in this game. None of which require a taunt band-aid for poor skill and ability selection. Don't like your ship's survivability? Get a defensive BO skill. Want to support the team more? Get a support oriented BO skill. Want to deal more damage? Get a damage dealing skill.

But seriously a cruiser or science vessel or two can keep an escort alive no matter what kind of realistic pounding it's getting. Perhaps to put it in language you can understand, in STO everyone is cleric/tank/dps hybrid and can switch between roles as needed. Instead of everyone having one job they can do, everyone can do everything. Thus taunt abilities are unnecessary.

So maybe you and your cruiser buddy need to examine your skills and abilities and determine if they really are optimal for what you want. If the cruiser doesn't want to load up on damage skills like Emergency Power to Weapons or Fire at Will then maybe he can get some team support abilities like Hazard Emitters, Aux to SIF, and Engineering Team to keep the team alive. Or some enemy debuff abilities like Siphon Power, Target Weapons, or Aceton Field.

Or maybe your escort could get some debuff powers. Beam Target Weapons is a GREAT skill for survival on an Escort.

And you seem to be forgetting the 'loose interest in me' ability Jam Sensors. Escorts can use that one, you know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
10-05-2010, 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
a dps escort with a healing cruiser behind it is a better tank than a tanking cruiser. Additionally, if you can't survive an STF then you may not want to try competative pvp - just saying.

edit: also the whole notion of "aggro" is complete bull**** because its obsurdly stupid. why would a boss character only attack the tank that obviously won't die when it can turn 3 degrees to the left and "instagib" another player. the answer: because it's programmed to.
I found D&D 4's approach (Marking) to this interesting - the reason the boss will attack the sturdy Fighter instead of the fragile Rogue is because the Fighter will wack him if he doesn't focus on the Fighter. As a result, ignoring the Fighter turns the Fighter into the DPS class (and the Rogue still is DPS until he's dead). Another class (or at least one build of it), the Swordmage, "defends" by erecting a force shield for his ally which reduces incoming damage - so attacking the ally instead of the Swordmage blunts the attacker's offense considerably.
The Paladin not only exacts his divine vengeance against attackers hitting his ally, he can also spend some of his own healing resources on an ally, basically reactively having himself taking the damage of an attack that got through.
The advantage of the D&D 4E approach is that it works against non-AIs. Which is important, since the DM is another human, not a stupid AI script. The DM has to make real choices, he isn't forced to do anything.

4E Style "aggro mechanics" for Startrek Online
Engineer's Watch (optional replacement for EPS Transfer)
You watch your enemies actions and keep your allies alert, always having repair teams ready to assist your allies.
Target: 1 enemy ship within 10km; Duration 30 seconds, Cooldown 40 seconds.
The enemy takes a -10/20/30 % damage strength debuff. Whenever he hits an ally, your ally repairs damage equal to half the value of an equal rank Engineering Team. (expressed this way since i don't remember the numbers from my head.)

Electronic Surveilance and Countermeasures (optional replacement for Starship Dampening Field)
You analyse your targets attack while jamming his sensors, constantly adjusting weapon frequencies based on analysis the target's weaponsfire.
Target: 1 enemy ship within 10 km; Duration 30 seconds, Cooldown 40 seconds.
The enemy takes a -10/20/30 % Accuracy debuff. Whenever he hits an ally, you gain a +20/40/60 % bleedthrough bonus on your attacks against him for 10 seconds.

Counterstrike (optional replacement for Fire on my Mark)
You prepare yourself for a counterstrike whenever the enemy is distracted.
Target: 1 enemy ship within 10km; Duration 30 seconds, Cooldown 40 esconds.
The target takes a -10/-20/-30 damage resistance debuff. Whenever it hits an ally, you gain a +50/75/100 % damage strength buff for attacks on the target for 10 seconds.

The Science and Tactical Captain variants would work just fine with the current AI mechanics - ignoring the "Mark" from the Captain leads to more damage taken. The Engineer's ability is a little more difficult -the AI doesn't take note of healing, as far as I know.
(Numbers are, as always, tweakable and will require play-testing.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
10-05-2010, 11:30 AM
Quote:
Well apparently you don't because (1.) you keep saying the same thing over and over despite others producing information to the contrary and (2.) that doesn't show any tricks; it's just a screenshot showing you have beaten a mission 15 times in spite of your horrible spelling and limited notions of what ships are capable of. You seem stuck in one way thinking, namely the tank-heal-dps trinity instead of developing strategies and tactics.
looks like i will have to spell this out to you, clearly too much to ask for you to use your head a little.

1. the 40 mins infected is referring to, i know the game well. in orde to do a 40min infected you will have to make no mistakes, no group wipes, no bad pulls, no boss resets and etc... or in another word, any trick that can be used to make the STF quicker, i know it. the 15 tries of infected is simply referring to that i got bored of it only after 15 tires, it is too much of a child's play.

2. the quote below only said "LONGER", i never once said that STF are impossible without a taunt like power, only LONGER.

Quote:
5. the whole fight eventually take a lot longer than it should, if only the cruiser can consistently take the agro.

read it, LONGER than it should, because cruiser cant always keep agro does it force the dps class to run away.
3. any pro mmo player will know, every mmo eventually get harder. with this game in mind, we can expect that STF will EVENTUALLY get harder. maybe they will go the simple route of more HP and DPS to the boss, or the more advanced route of diffcult scripted events. when the STF gets harder, you will need some sort of taunt power, as the dev might allow the boss to 3 shot a non tank player, all mmo eventually make the boss so powerful that it will 3 shot any on tank.

Quote:
eventually when sto make a proper raid (ie not a 5 man instance), maybe a very hard fleet action, there will be a need for taunt power.

4.
eventully
4. i dont understand why you are even arguing you point. what is your point exactly. that this name is not the standard trinity design? then why does the escort have a huge innate bonus to dps and the science ship have a huge innate bonus to shield?

5. i also dont understand why you seem to be against a taunt like power, if you read the OP. the OP only ask why there is no taunt power in this game, and i never actully said this game NEED a extra power that is just taunt. i said

Quote:
a simple fix is to simply give a cruiser an innate 50% bonus on threat (another mmo speak, threat equals perceived (not actual) damage modified by some factor)
which have no effect on pvp or solo pve.

6. you must be one of those ppl who whine about "why are we having more ship instead of more content". or sother silly rant. if you dont want to use it, you dont have to, we are not forcing you. but on the other hand, what is the harm of adding it.

7. finally. eventully the dev is here is please hardcore players. and hardcore player want a challenge, which mean harder STF and working as a team. what sort of team is it when the DPS class cant shake agro and shout for the tank to take agro, but the tank can do anything to help.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
10-06-2010, 03:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenstein View Post
Star Trek. Champions. Guild Wars. Oh wait, you just asked for one.
Better for it if you ask me. Makes the players use strategy instead of imitating mediocre MMOs.
Hey, you forgot Ultima Online!

But yeah, I like it, too. First off, it feels different from the current mainstream clones. Second, it encourages teamplay and tactics.

The entire concept of taunts is part of the dumbing-down of MMO game mechanics which leads all too many players to focus on internalizing an oversimplified chain of conditions and reactions. Like a trained lab monkey pressing the big button when the green light blinks, because he knows he'll get a cookie that way.* The alternative, communication and cooperation, is of course more challenging - but likewise also more rewarding. At least in my opinion.

*: And you can't even blame them since they grow up with this. In fact, future mainstream MMOs will likewise get even less complex because there will always be someone who thinks it's still too hard. Best example: WoW Hunters soon starting with a pet, because apparently too many kids are unable to handle the training process.

Related Reading: The Emasculation of MMOs - How Convenience Replaced Risk
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