Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-10-2010, 07:15 PM
Aliens coming to earth woudl change nothing for 95% of the human population. (Barring you know, worldwide invasion, the unlikely alien plague, or the aliens being so superadvanced the remake the entire world)

The reality is, life now is exciting if you go looking for excitement. Most people don't. If you lived 200 years ago, you'd be a dirtfarmer, if you lived 200 years from now there's a good chance you'd still be a wage slave.

For a culture to have the technology and industrial base to make it to the stars, they would have to be fairly stable. Cultures that devaulue the lives of their citizens or engange in frequent aggressive wartime campaigns tend to be very unstable, and thus unlikely be able to maintain the kind of infrastructure needed to maintain a strong presence in space.

That being said, if they did devalue alien life, there would likely not be any contact. If they have a means of transiting that alllows them to bypass the light speed barrier (be it a subversion or workaround) we would most likely never even know what happened. If you live in a major city you would most likely die without even knowing you were attacked, if you live in a rural area chances are good you would never know what happened, because communication and transportation infrustructure would break down fast in the event of worldwide bombardment. Then, depending on the season where you live, there is a good chance you would die from starvation or the elements. If you have food stuffs available (Be it canned or you live in area where crops are grown) there is a good chance you would be preyed upon by your fellow man. If you live in a community that manages to organize quickly enough you might make it several years and eventually gather enough information to learn what happened.

Then we come to the question: Why did they destroy us? If they were just exterminating something that may eventually become a threat, then we would most likely never know for sure what happened as they would likely leave immediately after the attack. If we are lucky some of our ground based observatories, orbital spy satellites, or even amatuer astronomers might have actually seen the attack, and over time their stories might would spread and mingle untill a semi-scientific explanation of what happened enters the collective unconscious. If no data remained after the attack, most likely there would be numerous conflicting stories that pass into myth and legend. Either way, eventually we would rebuild. Small chance of nuclear catastrophe, as history has shown that in uncertain times those holding the keys to nuclear aresenals tend to err on the side of caution. Most nuclear reactors have failsafes that prevent them from going critical when unattended. It most likely wouldn't be the dark ages but it would set us back a good fifty years. Progress would be slower because with a lower population there would be less disposable income and people would most likely have less spare time. Fortunately most first world countries have large industrial centers and communication hubs that exist away from major population centers. Things like aggriculture, transportation, and communication would bound back pretty quick. Unfortunately in this case, they may use atomics on us, which would mean good chunks of the world would be completely unusable, the idea being to prevent our populations from ever reaching the extreme levels it had in the past.

If they attacked with the intent to take our resources, enslave our population, or move into our prime beachfront reallestate, then it gets more interesting. This is of course, the most unlikely scenerio, as just about everything mentioned can be had more easily elsewere. There is nothing on earth that you can't get from another planet, or even asteroid. So why come to earth and fight for what you can get for free in space? If they are here for reallestate, then we are assuming a rare earth scenerio, and our planet is one valuable jewel. In that event, they would again probably blast us from orbit, most likely with kinetics or neutron bombs or some other weapon that destroys but doesn't leave harmful afteraffects. In this case the bombardment would probably be more extensive, because they wouldn't want any secondary population centers to exist that could potentially fight back. Then there is the post bombardment invasion. This would be anybodies guess as to what would happen, because who knows how they would percieve the remaining population? Most likely their military would make an effort to search the planet for any weapons chaches to keep us from being a threat, but would they attempt to exterminate us as well? You can't really say with an alien mindset.

Now if they are utilizing sub light propulsion, then we would probably see them coming a long way off. Despite what most science fiction claims, there really isn't a good way to hide in space. In that case, we would probably be guns to bear ready when they arrive, and if they fight us it would probably end badly for both sides.

More realisitcly, if aliens came, they would probably be peaceful to a certain extent. IE: There would probably be cultural and technological exchanges, earth leadership would establish political relations, they would establish embassies or other places on our planet. Their technology would tricle out to the human population over time. There would numerous conflicts, extremist groups from both side would engage in protests and or attacks, their culture would influence ours and vice versa. Eventually there would be an equalibrium reached and it would become like dealing with another nationality, though that equilibrium would probably take much longer to reach than with another earth based culture.

That assumes of course, that they aren't so incredibly alien that we never reach an understanding. A couple of good books on this kind of topic that I have found are: The Wheelers by Ian Stewart and Jack Cohen and the Worldwar and Colonization series by Harry Turrtledove.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-10-2010, 07:18 PM
i'd prefere to just extermiante them on sight.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-10-2010, 07:25 PM
Better to be safe then sorry
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-10-2010, 07:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by P_Sutherland
heres what will happen


alien comes out of ship

"alien does somthing with his hand"
"Human 1 gets annoyed as he cant do it"
*Human 1 shoots alien*
*Human with epic beard shouts "board their ship take everything you can!"
*humans board ship*


and walaaaa .. aliens beware.. the monsters are comming
In a Mirror, Darkly, Part I
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-10-2010, 07:36 PM
We have nuclear fission, we have cheap electronics, and we have a LOT of gold. Plus this is a water planet, and water is pretty valuable for its volatility in hydrogen/oxygen reactions... makes a good chemical battery.

So we have at least 3 things a civilization would find useful and rare. Now, if aliens did come to this planet I don't really think we'd notice for a while. Our governments don't even tell us the truth about the budget we pay taxes for, why would they reveal something that big? Our culture would rapidly change over a very short period of time and in general we would willingly conform to be more efficient and less intelligent laborers. Technology brought to us by the travellers would make the parts of our lives that involve higher reasoning and communication so incredibly easy that we cease to use those parts of our brains and become increasingly easy to enslave, and rapidly less capable of revolution... you know, like the iPhone. As this takes place, there would be a massive corporate uptake of the resources the visitors want... gold, nuclear fuel, water... and our access to it would rapidly dwindle. Cashforgold.com, Evian, and the Gulf War.... you know... maybe they're already here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-10-2010, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondo80 View Post
IF aliens made contact with our world (in the UN, on live TV saying "Hi we want to be friends") how many of us would still keep playing STO because they like the game?
I would, they aren't coming in fleets of super science ships.

It's more like they contacted us by normal scientific means, "HI!,", It will be a good thing if they are close, or a return message of "Yo.", would take more than just a few hundred years.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-10-2010, 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I find it incredibly unlikely anything at that level of sophistication would be that violent... And if it were? We wouldn't have anything they wanted.
You mean like Species 8472, the Borg, the Iconians, the Yuuzhan Vong? :p I believe there are aliens in all shades; from pacifists, to war mongers. Just because you're technologically advanced, doesn't mean you're evolved on a moral level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-10-2010, 08:28 PM
I think Dr. Michio Kaku is probably right in what he said about alien visitation. Space is so vast that any life form advanced enough to actually travel to our solar system won't think too much of this little blue dot.

Aliens that are capable of interstellar travel probably have their own means for generating power. They could probably manufacture water or gold or whatever they required and would not need our planet's resources. And if you need to refuel, the greatest power generators in the universe are stars not planets. Why stop here?

We're not all that advanced and we may look like mere insects to interstellar beings. Our radio and tv signals, SETI transmissions, satellites in orbit, etc. won't be a big deal. To advanced beings, it's like coming across an active ant hill. So what?

That's why Dr. Kaku proposed we send mathematical transmissions such as String Theory, The Theory of Everything so the aliens will think we're worthy of contacting. But we should only do this after we have planetary and solar system defenses.

We're a long way from being able to defend ourselves from invaders so it's probably good that we may be off their radar. Never know if our first visitation will be from Vulcans or Species 8472.

Either way, if and when we are visited I think science fiction will radically change. That is, if we survive the visit...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-10-2010, 08:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keldor
We have nuclear fission, we have cheap electronics, and we have a LOT of gold. Plus this is a water planet, and water is pretty valuable for its volatility in hydrogen/oxygen reactions... makes a good chemical battery.

So we have at least 3 things a civilization would find useful and rare. Now, if aliens did come to this planet I don't really think we'd notice for a while. Our governments don't even tell us the truth about the budget we pay taxes for, why would they reveal something that big? Our culture would rapidly change over a very short period of time and in general we would willingly conform to be more efficient and less intelligent laborers. Technology brought to us by the travellers would make the parts of our lives that involve higher reasoning and communication so incredibly easy that we cease to use those parts of our brains and become increasingly easy to enslave, and rapidly less capable of revolution... you know, like the iPhone. As this takes place, there would be a massive corporate uptake of the resources the visitors want... gold, nuclear fuel, water... and our access to it would rapidly dwindle. Cashforgold.com, Evian, and the Gulf War.... you know... maybe they're already here.
Actually, water is extremely common. Of course, this also assumes that water is not lethal to the aliens, which is entirely possible, of course, if that was the case why come here?

Cheap electronics isn't anything special. Each planetary society will develop technoligacly along lines of what is readily available to them. Secondly, our electronics would not be compatible with theirs. Whole new factories would have to be built, if humans were doing the work entirely new schools would have to be established to train human programmers and engineers to work within alien standards.

There is a lot that the government doesn't tell us, but the reality is, there is more that they do, but nobody pays attention. It is a problem of the human condition, and most likely aliens will have similar problems.

Every body has this strange fear that technology will make us dumber, but reality is that technology doesn't change us. It changes behaviors sure, but when one part of our life gets easier, that time just gets devoted to another focus. People don't get dumber or smarter, our education changes, what we know changes, our problem solving skills focus on certain areas, but people are who they are.

The only one that I have to ask about, is gold. Why do you think aliens would want gold? The only things that make it valuable is: Its rarity, its maleability, and its properties as an electircal conductor. Rarity is a relative thing, because though we don't have much on earth, another planet might have a greater supply (not likely to an extreme level but possible) and rarity doesn't always mean value on a large market, especially a market worth invading an entire world for. Maleability isn't really an issue by the time you have reached spaceflight, if gold existed in greater abundance it might effect the value because of it being a great electrical conductor, but with limited supply this property is of little use.

If anything, smart phones make us more capable of revolution. Free flow of information would allow the human population to instantly be aware of any attempt at treachery, and they could easily access the information to engage in revolutionary activities.

And finally, your comments crack me up, because they make me think of that movie, "They Live" which is awesome and I recommend anyone who hasn't, go watch it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-10-2010, 08:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
I find it incredibly unlikely anything at that level of sophistication would be that violent... And if it were? We wouldn't have anything they wanted.
I'll have to take Stephen Hawkings word over yours. I think they'd need to be the most violent and cunning species on their home planet in order to be at the top, much like we are. And if they were travelling such distances across space just to come here they'd likely only do it because we'd have something they'd want. looking at our own history when one group meets another the less sophisticated group loses out every single time.
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