Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-12-2010, 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
damnit devoras! you stole my thunder!
Im just quoting yer Holy words, so be happy!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-12-2010, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frets91 View Post
First of all, thanks for the BBQ.

And skill is certainly not irrelevant. This is a game. This is PVP in a game. Skill is big, if not everything. Skill determines your bragging rights, your reputation - in fact calling other people skilless is a favorite among the arsenal of canned PVP trashtalk, even. You can't deny that.

Look, this would be different if they were equal, and they were both fighting tooth and nail, 100% on their game, and one gained the winning edge by popping a pot. If so, then GG, WP, other acronyms, and give both players a beer for their trouble. But this guy was -sixteen- levels higher, and he was the one who -initiated- the challenge, according to the OP. Dude, if someone pulled that stuff outside of Ironforge, or in Kheshatta in front of their guildies, and needed a pot to win? The guildies would've laughed their vent server into crashing, and the server forums would never let that person live that down.

The OP asked for peoples' thoughts on his situation, of a fight where a -16 player got a +16 player down to 20% health, and the +16 player needed to use a hypo to not die. Mostly everyone proceeded to give their opinions on a different situation, that of a +0 and a +0 player duel, and one using a legitimate game ability to not die. I agree with everyone that the 'different' situation is perfectly fine. I agree wholeheartedly, but that's not the situation the OP gave. That's all.
But he didnt do this in front of his whole guild/fleet.. He did in a private match..

Ive fought challenge fights where my lowbie toons were fighting VAs.. I didnt care that they were using ships with more weaponslots, better skills, better shields etc..

We can agree that this situation is lame.. But in the end, the higher level player won.. If he *hadnt' used a pot, would the complaint then have been that he used a MK8 weapon instead of MK6?..

Like I said.. A match starts, one player wins, another loses.. Regardless of how cheap/skilless/lame one player played, it doesnt change the fact that he won.

You cannot reasonably expect people to follow "unwritten rules" (Ironically, unwritten rules often change, depending on POV) especially not when it wasnt agreed upon prior to the match start. (assumption, the OP didnt state that the challenger agreed to any terms)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-12-2010, 08:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
But he didnt do this in front of his whole guild/fleet.. He did in a private match..
That doesn't change the fact that people should facepalm at him if they find out about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Ive fought challenge fights where my lowbie toons were fighting VAs.. I didnt care that they were using ships with more weaponslots, better skills, better shields etc..

We can agree that this situation is lame.. But in the end, the higher level player won.. If he *hadnt' used a pot, would the complaint then have been that he used a MK8 weapon instead of MK6?..
I seriously doubt the OP would've posted this at all if the Fed didn't use a pot. It was stated in the OP that he had died several times prior already. He apparently didn't care either that he had a mark 6 weapon or anything. What he cared about was the pot popping at 20%, and come on, anyone would've reacted to that in his shoes. It would've at least caused a chuckle, or a sigh.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Like I said.. A match starts, one player wins, another loses.. Regardless of how cheap/skilless/lame one player played, it doesnt change the fact that he won.
This is the main thing at hand here. Yes, he won. I never said he didn't win. I would've popped the pot too most probably if I lacked the skills to kill him without it. My point is, however, he won the match, but nothing else. He won no points, no pats on the back, in fact he -lost- a hypo, but most of all he won no respect, and if he did that in front of guildies, he would've lost respect. He was sixteen levels higher, for crying out loud. I'm not saying that people should make a big deal about it, I'm just trying to remind people that that's how it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
You cannot reasonably expect people to follow "unwritten rules" (Ironically, unwritten rules often change, depending on POV) especially not when it wasnt agreed upon prior to the match start. (assumption, the OP didnt state that the challenger agreed to any terms)
This is -not- the main thing at hand here. This one is the whole 'to pot or not to pot' debate that's been going on since at least 2004, and will continue for a very long time I'm sure. I don't think that this is the main point the OP was trying to bring forward here though. If it -is- the main point, then this is a thread that will accomplish nothing in its future 20+ pages of life. If people want to discuss this though, then I agree with you. I think that the pot issue should be agreed upon before a duel, and if not discussed, then anything goes. If someone thinks pots are unfair, then they should just keep a finger on their own pot button, and be ready to hit it the moment their opponent hits his.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-12-2010, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
Tell me, are there any decent PvPers out there anymore?

I recieved a personal challenge tonight, from a Starfleet officer (while I was on my Klingon) and this person will remain nameless.

He/She was a Commander. I was a Lieutentant Commander. This person had +16 on me. Still, being one not to refuse a challenge, I accepted, and stepped up to the fight, in good faith.

Now, obviously, a few good shots from something 16 levels above you will kill you. But I fought on, and I worked this Commander dowwn to about 20% health on one round. I figured I had him dead to rights, and worked hard for the kill.

So what's he/she do? Instead of taking the death honorably, the Commander uses a hypospray to get back to full health!

Any good PvPer knows, the unwritten code of honor on the PvP battlefield is you don't use pots. It's a lame excuse to take a rightful victory from your opponent. Instead of acknowledging my skill and fighting it out to the end, the person pulls the I.W.I.N. switch and kills me instead.

What a joke.

Am I wrong on this? I'd like the PvP Communitiy's take on this incident. Am I right, and this person should have taken his/her lumps, or are pots (hyposprays) fair game in PvP?
I'm assuming you were slapping him to death with your bare hands. You know, seeing as these weapons are not skills....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-12-2010, 10:47 AM
LOL. You guys must be really bored or jonesing pretty hard for a new thread in this forum.

OK, first - some history. "Duel no pots" is a custom that originally started in UO (the Grandaddy of all MMOs). There were many reasons for this but primarily it was because heal pots could be chained with no cool down. The exception to the rule was if the character was actually an alchemist, which meant he had invested skill points into his template at the cost of sacrificing other skills. Of course, the alchemist would have to make any pots he wanted to use during the duel. The same went for dexxers using poisoned blades (required to have the poisoning skill). In normal open PvP, however, there were no rules... the use of pots was only limited to the weight of your backpack and the fact that if you died, the contents of said backpack would be looted dry by the victor.

Here in STO there is no "duel no pots" custom. Trust me - I've PvP'ed on the ground more than anyone else in this thread combined. Chances are if there was such a custom here, I would have been part of popularizing it. There is no need for such a rule - we only have 3 consumables to choose from and they all have individual and global cool downs. Not only that but unlike UO, where every PvP template had multiple ways to heal, there are many (viable) spec/kit combinations that have zero ability to heal which would put healers at such an extreme advantage that dueling one would be an effort in futility.

All good ground PvP'ers make liberal use of their consumables. It's the way the game is designed. To not use them is, well, the primary characteristic of a noob.

Lastly, a comment on the +16 "issue." It's nowhere near as big of a disadvantage as you guys are making it out to be. A skilled lower tiered player can beat an opponent ranked above him. In fact, it's not all that uncommon. This isn't WoW where you become a walking god among the lowbies. Sure, it is a feather in your cap to win against the odds... but notice I said "win." Not "lose and cry pot chugger on the forums."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26 Thread Approved
10-12-2010, 11:04 AM
I bless this thread and expell all non-believers of the Honor Tank!!

No, really, is this guy serious?:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-12-2010, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BorrowedTune
Lastly, a comment on the +16 "issue." It's nowhere near as big of a disadvantage as you guys are making it out to be. A skilled lower tiered player can beat an opponent ranked above him. In fact, it's not all that uncommon. This isn't WoW where you become a walking god among the lowbies. Sure, it is a feather in your cap to win against the odds... but notice I said "win." Not "lose and cry pot chugger on the forums."
Now that's a useful contribution. =) Thanks for the info, sir. Duly noted.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-12-2010, 11:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
Tell me, are there any decent PvPers out there anymore?

I recieved a personal challenge tonight, from a Starfleet officer (while I was on my Klingon) and this person will remain nameless.

He/She was a Commander. I was a Lieutentant Commander. This person had +16 on me. Still, being one not to refuse a challenge, I accepted, and stepped up to the fight, in good faith.

Now, obviously, a few good shots from something 16 levels above you will kill you. But I fought on, and I worked this Commander dowwn to about 20% health on one round. I figured I had him dead to rights, and worked hard for the kill.

So what's he/she do? Instead of taking the death honorably, the Commander uses a hypospray to get back to full health!

Any good PvPer knows, the unwritten code of honor on the PvP battlefield is you don't use pots. It's a lame excuse to take a rightful victory from your opponent. Instead of acknowledging my skill and fighting it out to the end, the person pulls the I.W.I.N. switch and kills me instead.

What a joke.

Am I wrong on this? I'd like the PvP Communitiy's take on this incident. Am I right, and this person should have taken his/her lumps, or are pots (hyposprays) fair game in PvP?
Ok, I see major problems with this topic.

1. Your complaining about a ground combat incident.
2. Your complaining that, while in a ground combat, a higher level opponent had to pop a hypo. (Should be lol worthy)
3. Your saying that there should be some rule that, while in a ground combat duel, 1v1, no Hypo/Shield item recharge buffs are allowed.

It's PVP. Unless the terms are agreed upon by both parties, anything goes.

Again, you should be laughing at the guy that he actually had to pop a hypo. He was +16 higher then you? Congratulations, you almost killed him!

Only other thing I can say is just go back to leveling. And have a good laugh at his expense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-12-2010, 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frets91 View Post
I seriously doubt the OP would've posted this at all if the Fed didn't use a pot. It was stated in the OP that he had died several times prior already. He apparently didn't care either that he had a mark 6 weapon or anything. What he cared about was the pot popping at 20%, and come on, anyone would've reacted to that in his shoes. It would've at least caused a chuckle, or a sigh.
Yeah, pretty much.

I didn't mind losing, since I knew going into it, I was on the short end of the stick. But the hypo shot was
pretty ridiculous.

As for all of you "Oh he used a pot, which is part of the game, so you are a QQer" crowd - I have played many MMOs for 6 years. I have never played a game where it was considered acceptable to use a pot in 1v1 PvP combat. Duels are a matter of honor. Character traits, abilities, etc? I have no problem with that at all. If you are a healer, then by all means, heal yourself. That is part of the strategy. But pots were always considered a no-no in a challenge or duel.

For the person that doubted it was a hypo, and suggested it was an ability, I can say for certain it was NOT an ability. Hypos produce a particular animation. Furthermore, abilities when used produce the baloon and string marker on the player indicating what exactly they did.

Anyways, thank's everyone for your input.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-12-2010, 11:52 AM
I spit my drink out laughing at the whole "he used a hypospray and denied me the honorable kill" routine! Best laugh i've had in a while..

Sorry but i don't agree about the hypo. I play to win, i'm not a Klink with silly honor concerns. I'll use any cheap trick up my sleeve, i will call in security, anything it takes to take you down.
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