Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-13-2010, 07:01 AM
I'm saddened to see the entrenched positions. If you honestly believe that cloak is balanced as it is now, then you will find yourself in the decided minority. This thread is for discussion of how to fix that before the devs take another heavy handed approach. The devs primarily base PvP decisions off of data-mining and for some reason despite being different devs that has remained throughout CoH, CoV, CO, STO Beta and remains the approach today. For example VM, FBP, alpha strikes, escorts, buff stacking, etc.

We all know what their data-mining of KvK Will show. Almost nobody plays it. Is there really much doubt why? It may not be priority 1 of the devs, but rest assured it's on their radar. Clearly FvF is more popular than FvK. On my klink even getting games is a struggle.

So, any ideas?

Foxrocks, roach, and others have had meaningful contributions in other threads. If you have a suggested tweak, let's hear it. Canon clearly points to power consumption as the challenge for cloaking. Without a stamina/mana bar the application of that isn't as obviously straight forward. Hopefully we can find a reasonable middle ground that doesn't require a specific ship or captain type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-13-2010, 07:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
You in this post refers to the OP and those who think like him.

Being "waited" out in a match sucks and is the cowards way out. Would be better to accept the fact that one is outclassed and take your lumps.
What the OP proposes though is not a solution and will not solve the issue.

The BoP already suffers from these handicaps in part due to the BC;
- loss of shielding upon decloaking, with a slow climb for power to reset to standard working parameters
- fewer Hullpoints
- fewer Shield points and a very low Shield Cap.
- Battle cloak goes on a cooldown upon uncloaking and is unusable for that duration at all.


The OP's idea of;
- after 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25 and would not start reviving said systems until after decloaked.

This will not solve the problem of some players being cowardly or playing the "waiting game" in pvp, if anything it will just make matches longer as no Klingon is going to attack with all or any systems (except shields) at 25 power.
This will not solve the Hit-N-Run tactic from being used as once again the Klingons will merely wait until full powered before attacking, once again making the matches long and tediuos.

Overall its a useless nerf to Battle Cloaks wrapped in a false sense of trying to help the KDF with something that is not a problem or is working incorrectly.
If your opponents play the "waiting game" pity them for being cowards and remember them for next time you que-up, but to nerf a useful and well-functioning ability of a faction to justify your own selfish desires is wrong on any level.
Roach i agree with all of your points. I do not fight against klingons very often because you need a good team to blunt klingons.

But I still feel that aux should have a set drain/recharge like weapons, doubtful this will affect cloak but it will affect multiple aux skills being spammed at once.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-13-2010, 07:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VexusPrime

We all know what their data-mining of KvK Will show. Almost nobody plays it. Is there really much doubt why? It may not be priority 1 of the devs, but rest assured it's on their radar. Clearly FvF is more popular than FvK. On my klink even getting games is a struggle.

So, any ideas? .

The numbers we do not know is how many klingons are there compared to fed players. Let me pull hypotheticals out. IF the factions divided the player base 50/50 I could see the argument but I feel the game is more like 75/25 in favor of feds. Using this number if the % of those numbers is is 33% then I would say that FvF and KvK are on par with each other. Since we do not have those numbers it would be irresponsible to say no one plays KvK because of this or that because we do not have a solid percentage of klingons that can PvP versus those that do and comparing them to the number of feds that can PvP versus the feds that do. Also if there are more feds the numbers will always seem disparate because we do not know the percentages.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-13-2010, 07:38 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by VexusPrime
?
Foxrocks, roach, and others have had meaningful contributions in other threads. If you have a suggested tweak, let's hear it.
Cloaking is fine the way it is, my suggestion. If one has a problem with Klingons useing cloaks to "wait-grief" others that noty going to change by nerfing cloaking into being a useless ability.

Quote:
Canon clearly points to power consumption as the challenge for cloaking.
The lose of all shield power completely fullfils this power drain concept while cloaking is in effect.

Quote:
Hopefully we can find a reasonable middle ground that doesn't require a specific ship or captain type.
There is no middle ground as cloaking works as intended and your ideas are just a baseless dislike of being griefed by cloaking in a pvp match. Stop proposing changes to my strengths to overcome your weaknesses. Stop proposing changes to the game to overcome other players inability to use good sportsmanship in pvp (ei: cloak griefing). Don't attempt to sale a change that effectively nerfs a whole faction because you dislike the behavior of a minority in pvp.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-13-2010, 07:41 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Roach i agree with all of your points. I do not fight against klingons very often because you need a good team to blunt klingons.
The same holds true for any good fed team I have pugged against in pvp. You always need a good team to win against a good team.

Quote:
But I still feel that aux should have a set drain/recharge like weapons, doubtful this will affect cloak but it will affect multiple aux skills being spammed at once.
And the science players will cry over it because the bulk of thier powers are Aux based and scale up in effectivness with Aux power levels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-13-2010, 07:53 AM
Battle Cloak has already been nerfed. We can be targeted with NO shield for 3 seconds before we vannish. This was a HUGE issue at one time as the fed escorts would chew you up in that 3 seconds. So most klinks started running Pol Hul and other resists skills before cloak.

It really really is not our problem that the entire fed faction has went cruiser crazy. Perhaps you should run more DPS class ships and kill those using battle cloak.

The fed faction has sci ships very very capable of finding cloakers now... it has escort class ships capable of destroying shieldless bops in the 3 second cloak window. Instead 90% of the fed players run cruisers that can do not much of either. I don't see how this is a Klingon Issue that we must be nerfed for so you can countinue to fly your unbreakable cruiser balls.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-13-2010, 07:53 AM
Roach I am not proposing a full drain, I am proposing something along the mechanics of the way weapons power drains and recharges. Sci/eng does not have an ability like BOv but there is so if you trigger 5 aux dependant skills at once you get a drain that recharges. Again it would really affect cloak and probably not even dent battle cloak in performance. Aux is the only skill that even with little bit it goes a long way,it also one of the skills that get no bonus for high aux except stealth detection. Weapons get penalized for using "High" yield energy, shields get resists, engines give a defense bonus, aux gets stealth detection but most of your sci skills and some eng skills use aux. There is no penalty for overuse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-13-2010, 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
Roach I am not proposing a full drain, I am proposing something along the mechanics of the way weapons power drains and recharges. Sci/eng does not have an ability like BOv but there is so if you trigger 5 aux dependant skills at once you get a drain that recharges. Again it would really affect cloak and probably not even dent battle cloak in performance
I have no problems with a proposal to put an Aux drain on science based abilities, as I don't use a lot of science. Many will dislike it though and not approve. I also have no idea on how one would implement such an idea and not have it be a nerf to those who play science, as it will effect almost all thier abilities in game and they already have "power effect based off of Aux levels" restriction in play.

It shouldn't effect cloaking/battle claoking at all, as those two powers don't use Aux to work. As far as I know Aux is used to detect cloaking not implement it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-13-2010, 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Battle Cloak has already been nerfed. We can be targeted with NO shield for 3 seconds before we vannish. This was a HUGE issue at one time as the fed escorts would chew you up in that 3 seconds. So most klinks started running Pol Hul and other resists skills before cloak.

It really really is not our problem that the entire fed faction has went cruiser crazy. Perhaps you should run more DPS class ships and kill those using battle cloak.

The fed faction has sci ships very very capable of finding cloakers now... it has escort class ships capable of destroying shieldless bops in the 3 second cloak window. Instead 90% of the fed players run cruisers that can do not much of either. I don't see how this is a Klingon Issue that we must be nerfed for so you can countinue to fly your unbreakable cruiser balls.
The OP doesn't fly a cruiser. And feds are moving more towards Sci captains in all ships not just cruisers. After the excelsior came out you had marginal escort pilots switching over and the old cruiser pilots tried it out and switched back to cruisers. I can get the occasional one shot on a bop when they go to battle cloak. Again I have no issues with cloaking right now it is fine if anything the proposed nebula will actually make cloak underpowered and risky. By the time the RSP patch hits I wouldn't be surprised to see more sci capts and sci ships then anything else.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-13-2010, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I have no problems with a proposal to put an Aux drain on science based abilities, as I don't use a lot of science. Many will dislike it though and not approve. I also have no idea on how one would implement such an idea and not have it be a nerf to those who play science, as it will effect almost all thier abilities in game and they already have "power effect based off of Aux levels" restriction in play.

It shouldn't effect cloaking/battle claoking at all, as those two powers don't use Aux to work. As far as I know Aux is used to detect cloaking not implement it.

Aux is used to strengthen the cloaks stealth. The drain/recharge would be dependent on skill points and level. If you have FBP 3 and full specced into it you would have lets say initial drain drain of -5 for 3 seconds when it starts to recharge but if you have FBP 2 it would have drain of -5 for 5 seconds then recharge and so on and so forth. All it would do is make people be judicious with use of multiple aux skills. If you want to use 5 skills that are aux heavy you can expect a -25 drain with various rates of recharge to correspond to the various skill levels and points specc'd the numbers I am using are purely SWAGs for discussion purposes but I hope illustrates the mechanic I think would work overall and help PvP become less of a resist spamming it has become lately.
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