Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-19-2010, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 800lbGorilla
Speaking of the reward, it is pretty useless. I tried it on a daily for Emblems and it had no effect on a Romulan Warbird. What the heck is it used for?
It adds physical and kinetic resistance to your ship for 15 seconds, as well as a +15-18 defense buff. You might not have noticed it buffing you but it was.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-20-2010, 08:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borysthenis
Not quite.

Section 31 is an illegal, immoral organization that works outside the boundaries of Starfleet regulations and Federation ideals to 'protect' the Federation from what it considers threats. At no point in the run of DS9 or Enterprise (the two shows where Section 31 showed up) did anything Section 31 did ever help -- it simply accelerated things or made things worse, over and over again.

It condones methodologies the Federation has publicly eschewed as abhorrent. It supports clandestine genocide in the name of a false sense of security. It takes short cuts because it believes the ends justify the means. As they said in Enterprise, they took a regulation in the Starfleet Charter to allow for the temporary, limited expansion of powers in times of overwhelming threat as carte blanche to do what they want, when they want with absolutely no oversight from civilian, governmental or Starfleet superiors, because "there are always threats."

They are not MI6, they are SMERSH. They are not GI Joe, they are Cobra.

They are the opposite of what the Federation stands for, claiming to preserve the space while ignoring the philosophies that make it meaningful.

When we take direction from Drake or work with him in the context of any mission, there should always be an overwhelming question in the background -- "is what we are doing worth the price we are paying? Is our security worth the loss of our morality? Is it better to live at all costs or die with our honor?" Section 31 always always always lives in a grey area.

There is a role for Section 31 in STO -- I think the two earlier Drake episodes are great -- they capture the feel of the organization perfectly, in my opinion. The fact that we have a choice in the later Drake mission -- that we can play it out depending on our own anwers to those questions -- is completely amazing. I am not, in any way opposed to the inclusion of Section 31 in Star Trek Online.

However, the face of Section 31 spontaneously showing up and giving us military orders in a war zone breaks that. We don't have a good reason to follow Drake's orders -- he's not in the line of command of the war effort, and we're not given a dramatic context that justifies his inclusion. As a result, his presence is glaring and ultimately comes across as unnecessary in the most significant episode for setting the tone of the second weekly series -- the first episode.

If this is meant to be a Section 31 morally ambiguous mission tree, where we're going along with Drtake because circumstances require it, there needs to be much, much better setup for it. Just having him show up and use us as a resource to promote his agenda implies our collusion with it, and that invalidates the second Drake episode in the game and our ability to make the core moral choices that come from Section 31 in Star Trek and STO.

Remember, Section 31 is an organization that decided it was all right to completely destroy an entire sentient race -- before the Dominion War, I would add -- and kill an ally of the Federation in the process, because they saw that race as a potential threat. This is the moral equivalent of deciding it's okay to destroy Moscow and kill not only the government and military leaders there but also every civilian who lives there, slaughtering millions, because one day they might attack your country.

Or London.

Or Washington D.C.

That's who we're talking about when we're talking Section 31. And that's whyt a solid story-based reason for their presence is vital, or else it casts a very dark pall over everything that happens in the story.
Theoretically, Section 31 members are part of Starfleet though. Not in their function as Section 31 member, but more like a cover. But they need to use this to achieve anything. I figure Drake has gotten a position in Starfleet Intelligence or Starfleet Command to give you orders. He might not reveal to anyone else that he is a Section 31 member and there might be no proof he is. (Your word against his only.)

It is unsatisfactory the way it is now, though. I shouldn't "assume" the above to bethe case, it should be mentioned in the briefing.
"As member of Starfleet Intelligence attached to Deep Space K-7 I received worrisome information that I'd like you to investigate..." could be enough. He doesn't have to state he's 31 every time, and he has to establish his cover. He can't give you any orders by the authority of Section 31, since Section 31 has no authority. He has to "fake" it. Though one could argue that he didn't give you any order. Just suggested you investigate something that would be considered investigation-worthy, like a civilian saying "hey, I saw a bunch of orion smugglers going this way." It's not an order to have you do anything. But being a responsible Starfleet member, you'd probably look into it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-20-2010, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Borysthenis
Not quite.

Section 31 is an illegal, immoral organization that works outside the boundaries of Starfleet regulations and Federation ideals to 'protect' the Federation from what it considers threats. At no point in the run of DS9 or Enterprise (the two shows where Section 31 showed up) did anything Section 31 did ever help -- it simply accelerated things or made things worse, over and over again.

It condones methodologies the Federation has publicly eschewed as abhorrent. It supports clandestine genocide in the name of a false sense of security. It takes short cuts because it believes the ends justify the means. As they said in Enterprise, they took a regulation in the Starfleet Charter to allow for the temporary, limited expansion of powers in times of overwhelming threat as carte blanche to do what they want, when they want with absolutely no oversight from civilian, governmental or Starfleet superiors, because "there are always threats."

They are not MI6, they are SMERSH. They are not GI Joe, they are Cobra.

They are the opposite of what the Federation stands for, claiming to preserve the space while ignoring the philosophies that make it meaningful.

When we take direction from Drake or work with him in the context of any mission, there should always be an overwhelming question in the background -- "is what we are doing worth the price we are paying? Is our security worth the loss of our morality? Is it better to live at all costs or die with our honor?" Section 31 always always always lives in a grey area.

There is a role for Section 31 in STO -- I think the two earlier Drake episodes are great -- they capture the feel of the organization perfectly, in my opinion. The fact that we have a choice in the later Drake mission -- that we can play it out depending on our own anwers to those questions -- is completely amazing. I am not, in any way opposed to the inclusion of Section 31 in Star Trek Online.

However, the face of Section 31 spontaneously showing up and giving us military orders in a war zone breaks that. We don't have a good reason to follow Drake's orders -- he's not in the line of command of the war effort, and we're not given a dramatic context that justifies his inclusion. As a result, his presence is glaring and ultimately comes across as unnecessary in the most significant episode for setting the tone of the second weekly series -- the first episode.

If this is meant to be a Section 31 morally ambiguous mission tree, where we're going along with Drtake because circumstances require it, there needs to be much, much better setup for it. Just having him show up and use us as a resource to promote his agenda implies our collusion with it, and that invalidates the second Drake episode in the game and our ability to make the core moral choices that come from Section 31 in Star Trek and STO.

Remember, Section 31 is an organization that decided it was all right to completely destroy an entire sentient race -- before the Dominion War, I would add -- and kill an ally of the Federation in the process, because they saw that race as a potential threat. This is the moral equivalent of deciding it's okay to destroy Moscow and kill not only the government and military leaders there but also every civilian who lives there, slaughtering millions, because one day they might attack your country.

Or London.

Or Washington D.C.

That's who we're talking about when we're talking Section 31. And that's whyt a solid story-based reason for their presence is vital, or else it casts a very dark pall over everything that happens in the story.
I agree with Borysthenis. Would it have been so hard to have an option to contact Starfleet Intelligence? Didn't Bashir/Sisko do something similar? And Reid? Of course, SI's response would have been to check out the system and report back to both, all the while keeping SI in the loop; this could even come back later in Section 31's favor. (e.g. Admiral who? SI does not have an Admiral <NAME>. Then Drake could call back later and say, "Thanks for your help, we couldn't have done it without out you." Oh, Admiral <NAME> sends his/her regards. Or they could be standing next to each other while "thanking" you. The option to choose sides would have been better.


edit: product of the public education system
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-20-2010, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tryulis View Post
...I personally find it pathetic people wont play a mission based on who gives it....
I could not disagree more.
Reply

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