Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Just to Consider What about old vessels we haven't seen in here which ones do the Rest of Klingon Community want to see? I mean maybe its nostalgia, but some of the old vessels are cool. And would work well when Foundry is released for parts of missions. Imagine Facing a rogue house of Klingon Pirates still flying D-5s or some other older ship.

Unknamed Klingon Vessel from ST: Enterprize Episodes "Affliction" and "Divergence"

D-5 from ST: Enterprize Episodes "Judgment" and "The Augments
D-5 Tanker from ST: Enterprize Episode "Judgment"

"Warbird" from Star Trek (2009)

and we must never forget,
K'Vort class Bird of Prey
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-20-2010, 01:31 AM
I actually dont know about them. I think the K'vort is going to be put in, although, if it isn't, probably some copyright reasons from CBS.

Enterprise fan?

to be honest, I wouldnt like to see Enterprise ships in here, they just wouldnt go, and besides, Pirates would have more up to date ships than Enterprise ones :/
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-20-2010, 06:27 AM
I have to agree, those ships are just too old. Admittedly, the Klingons tend to use everything until it breaks apart, but we're talking centuries here, with a culture that tends to fight a war every five years or so.

That being said, I guess the tanker could work, though not as a player ship. I'd like to see more NPC vessel variety, in general. But for players, I'd rather have some more ships for our Nausicaan, Gorn and Orion allies. From a Klingon point of view, it just doesn't make that much sense to see them flying our ships. Gorn maybe (if conscripted into the KDF), but not the others.

Also, K'vort = B'rel with another name. Why would you want two of the same ships?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-20-2010, 06:39 AM
I personally think its time for the Dev's to put some of their own designs into play for the KDF and its sub factions of races. All the KDF races are warlike and agressive and yet due to the limitations of the shows and movies we have never seen there true military might.
In any military fleet, one will have a mulitude of vessel types and role specific vessels, Its time the KDF got to show what they haven't let be publicly known about thier great war machine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-20-2010, 06:41 AM
>Not an Enterprize fan per se but those are the major missing Canon vessels that belong to the Klingons. Why do you feel that pirates would have more up to date vessels? Look at real world pirates. For the most part they take whatever ship they could, then just jury rig it repeatedly over time. While i admit a rogue house's upper echelon would have more up to date ships what do you think the young pirates just heading out would have? Imagine it modern weapons on heavily modified 22nd or 23rd century vessels in which new captains of this rogue house set forth to prove themselves.

>As for the "Warbird" from the new movie it looks similar but with decided differences to the K't'inga. Enough so if you look at the model that i could see it making a good Varient, or Even refit for the K't'inga. The ships from Enterprise are close enough to standard timeline in my personal opinion that we shouldn't rule them out. On top of that references are made to Enterprise in some Fed Game play, such as the bonding of Surak and Captain Archer.

Now I really am not looking for major shifts in the game, just getting a feel for what people could use (or would like to see so that they can use) in the Foundry when they release it. User created missions and content, the more options we have to work with, the more diversity the players can have in what they create. The more Diversity in what we can create, the better the user created content experience we can achieve.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-20-2010, 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Also, K'vort = B'rel with another name. Why would you want two of the same ships?
Um No, The K'vort Class Bird of Prey is MUCH bigger, 2500 crew compared to 12. please check canon before spouting nonsense like this.

http://www.startrek.com/database_art...s-bird-of-prey
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-20-2010, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaQogh
Um No, The K'vort Class Bird of Prey is MUCH bigger, 2500 crew compared to 12. please check canon before spouting nonsense like this.
Yes, but it's visually identical aside from size. I think that's the point. I really like the Klingon Bird of Prey design. In fact it's probably my favourite Trek ship, period. But even I gotta admit that the K'vort simply being a giant scaled up B'rel is...uh, kinda silly.

Granted, since Klingons have so few ship types, it's certainly something to add. A lot of folks seem to think it should be a cruiser...and I agree, since it's so big.

As for the D-5: yes, it'd be really old by the STO era, but bear in mind we already have the Raptor in-game, which is also an Enterprise series design. Now, the STO Raptor is not supposed to be the same as the ancient Raptor, but rather a modern redesign that just uses the same hull shape. The same could be said for an STO interpretation of the D-5.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-20-2010, 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acylion
Yes, but it's visually identical aside from size. I think that's the point. I really like the Klingon Bird of Prey design. In fact it's probably my favourite Trek ship, period. But even I gotta admit that the K'vort simply being a giant scaled up B'rel is...uh, kinda silly.
It's not even that. In the instances where the B'rel and the K'vort were identified by names, TNG reused the very same footage. Making the B'rel just as large as the K'vort.

http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/bop-size.htm

It's a common myth amongst the fans (no doubt started by one of the many soft-canon books), but one I keep argueing against. :p

I actually liked how it was done in SFC, with the K'vort being just slightly larger (~120%) than the small B'rel. But I've seen some charts where the K'vort was scaled up five times, and it just looks awful and makes no sense, given that each and every detail is enlarged equally. As if the K'vort would fire torpedoes that are 8 meters high. Makes you wonder if it'd also have a rear ramp that is 50 meters wide.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acylion
Now, the STO Raptor is not supposed to be the same as the ancient Raptor, but rather a modern redesign that just uses the same hull shape. The same could be said for an STO interpretation of the D-5.
This was also the explanation for the Somraw-Raptor. Still, I'm somewhat sceptical when it comes to importing designs from long-past eras into the year of 2409. The development of new ships should rather go forward like the K'tinga -> Vor'cha, not backwards. And I personally do think that the Hegh'ta BoP looks awesome. More of that, please.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-20-2010, 05:45 PM
So, out of curiosity, why would you say that these older vessels not be included for Foundry? Is it so far fetched that the Klingon empire might not have sold off their older vessels in the same manner as the Former Soviet Union? Remember the technological differences from the now and then we have are not that far removed from each other. Let us view the technological advancements of our real world to those of this fictitious world. The level of change from Enterprise to the TNG movies is closer to scale of the difference from 1945 to 2010. There are some countries to this day using WWII weaponry in their militaries and doing so successfully. With that in mind, include these vessels as Foundry options for NPCs. Bits of Star Trek canon that users can utilize in order to give their home brew missions a bit of flair.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-21-2010, 03:01 AM
I'd love to see the K'vort, same model as the small BoP we have right now, but with wings fixed in horizontal position and different textures that show it's a different ship, escape pods a few rows of small windows and you've got a new ship.
As for the size of the torpedo launcher: yeah it's massive in theory but the Photon Torpedoes fired by the K't'inga are also 3-4 decks high so they much be of a different calliber compared to the Fed models anyway.
At least it would abbear that the Klingons have two different sizes of torps: the big ones on their cruisers and the smaller ones on the BoPs that seem to be neraly identical to the Starfleet models.
Otherwise the Enterprise crew might have found out that the damage to Gorkon's ship in Star Trek 6 was not caused by Starfleet weaponry.
The torpedoes fird by the simulated battlecruisers in Star Trek 2 also appeared to have a lot more bang than the ones fired by Chang's ship in ST6, so there is another clue there are different types of torps.

The torpedo fired by the large BoP in "Redemption" also appeared to have a smaller diameter than the diameter of the launcher itself so it would seem the caliber did not grow proportionally with the ship but stayed similar to the K't'inga's torpedo caliber.
There is also the possibility that inside the large BoP's tube, clustered around the torpdo launcher itself there is a deflector array that would still require the "hole" in the forward section to remain as large as it is.
That the small and large BoPs were identical in screen cannot be denied but when subtled differences were added to the STO incarnation, it would go along way towards making the ship more credible.

The D-5 has almost the same problem as the NX:
at an age of 250 years it get strange that such a ship would remain in service.
Almost because the NX fought the D-5 in several occasions and was unable to damage it on each occasion with conventional weaponry.
Only trickery allowed them to get away each time.
So there would be a lot more fight left in the old D-5 than in the NX.
However sveral counter indications:
TOS-Remastered only included the D-7, even incases like the fleet over Organia where is would have been possible so show one.
They canged details like adding a Romulan BoP to the squad that intercepted the Enterprise in "The Enterprise Incident", why not D-5 in "Errand of Mercy" when it is very likely the Klingons would mobilize everything they had in a total war.
And there was alos no opposition in space expected by the Klingons so why send only the most advanced ships to pacifiy such a system?
Most likely the D-5 would only be in a rear service position by that time.
The shape of a ship inproves or counters the effects of a warp-field so without massive changes to the hull it becomes counterproductive to adding new engines because the ship would still be limited in its maximum speed due do its shape.
So the D-5 would be something between a large cutter and amonitor in the early 25th century.
Also something people forget when they talk about the word "refit" like it were the holy grail of ship construction:
At some point refitting a ship with new components means taking it apart into so many small pieces that it can in fact become more expensive to do so than to simply build a new one.
Of course this is STO, which means such cinsiderations as real-world facts don't come into play that much but just my 2 cents on the subject for now.
Maybe more next time.

/end wall of text:p
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