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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 51
12-01-2010, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerritouru View Post
In Star Trek the Sovereign its the more powerfull ship of the Federation. In this game, the Sovereign its the worst T5 crus the feds have.
Hell, we not even have a Sovereign bridge, we have a Prometheus Bridge, but not a Sovereign one.. we even have a some variations to the Galaxy and Defiant bridges.
Sovereign its the forgoten class, even if its the actual flag ship in the game (Enterprise E under cap Data), but the old Excelsior have the same hull, more fire power and more turn rate.
There does need to be an accurate Soverign bridge, I haven't evne seen a n accurate Galaxy one - you can get clos eif you purchase it from the c-store, but I wish it would be standard in the game to use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 52
12-04-2010, 06:42 AM
I scouted trough here read post here and there and please allow me to shine my own light on it. Just remember my views are not purely cannon they are what I deem could be cannon.


First of the Sovereign is an explorer end of story it is not a battleship for the simple reason the Federation doesn't have any battleships. Even de defiant was classified as an escort, and yes it could work as a battleship no doubt about it, but by name it is not.

The Sovereigns armaments came in answers partial to the new treads of the Borg, but also because exploration is a dangerous business and it had been proven all to often that you needed some punch to get out alive and there fore the sovereigns armament is quite massive. But it standard mission is exploration, remember that is also the prime goal of star fleet.

The closed thing to a true battleship is the noncannon Achilles class (My favourite ship forgive me). Even this however is listed as a long range tactical-cruiser, Where the defiant was build to fight the borg close to home the Achilles is the only true warship build by the Federation. Not build for self defence, but build to strike deep behind enemy lines, missions that during the dominion war could only be done by Galaxy and Sovereign class vessels, both way to valuable to risk on such assignments. Still only a couple build and most actually refitted for exploration duty seeing they have a modular design.

End of story the Federation doesn't deploy warships, battleships etc. She has cruises which form the main bulk of battle fleets, but the big hitters actually are designed for whole other reasons and are just used because they can serve as such as well.

So no battleships for the federation and if you ask me they should remove the name assault-cruiser as there is no such thing.


On the part of the refits, they are possible, but only so far and the excelsior is out of its league in game, simple as that. Also the Sovereign is still new enough not to require a refit type. Starfleet vessels are generally expected to last for 90-120 years, refits only happen to very successful and mass produced vessels to make them last longer at better efficiency. The Sovereign is build in small numbers and like any other starfleet ship she receives refits every 3 to 5 years updating her systems where needed.




Here is some info on ship designations Designation information on Trekmania
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 53
12-04-2010, 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The sovereign is too modern to need a refit in that sense.

What i do think it needs however, is a unique "Quantum Turret" power that actually uses the actual Turret on the ship model.
A power that say fires a volley of HY III Quantum Torpedoes.
Lol Modern, by our timeline its over 30 years old, dunno abut where you come from, but in the UK a naval vessel is nearing the end of its service life at 30, as did the original Enterprise NCC1701 in ST III it was about to be pensioned off after more than 20 years service.

This ship does need a refit, why don't cryptic simply make it similar if not slightly superior in one aspect to the Excelsior, therefore giving players more chance to fly what they want and still have a similar output.

Perhaps a universal ensign or lieutenant station on the Sovereign would make the difference between explorer and command ship?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 54
12-04-2010, 08:27 AM
First we need to understand the difference between a Refit and a Retrofit. Refit means you change the physical structure of the ship in some way: The TOS Enterprise is Refit into the TMP Enterprise, the Excelsior is Refit into the Enterprise B, etc. Retrofit simply means you upgrade the ship's equipment and systems. The game already allows you to Retrofit ships simply by upgrading from Mark A to Mark B gear. The minute you upgrade your Mk VIII gear Mk X, Mk XI, Mk XI+ you're Retrofitting your Sovereign.

As for Refit/Retrofit times, the TOS Enterprise was commissioned in 2245. It returned to Earth for Refit in 2270, after Kirk's 5-year mission. The Refit took 3 years. The ship was in service until 2285 when it went boom. Another under-going-Refit Constitution was renamed Enterpirse A for Kirk and stayed in service until it was decommissioned in 2293. That makes the Constitution's shelf-life around 48 years. It underwent several Retrofits in that time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 55
12-04-2010, 04:21 PM
The Sovvie is one of only two canon ships that were designed with combat in mind, along with the Defiant. All of the other Starships where designed to be explorers first, and combat as a defense, the Sovereign was designed for war and it was the most heavily armed ship during the Dominion War. The Sovereign (and every other original T5 ship) needs some luv to compete with the retrofits. Though it still is a good ship, it needs to have some more abilities to make it more offensive, really, the EXCELSIOR, which was mainly designed for EXPLORATION and is over A CENTURY old is a better fighter than the (somewhat) advanced ship designed to fight the Borg. HELLO! Now, that isn't to say that it was designed SOLELY for combat, no, designers made it to be very good for exploration, the only ship in Starfleet that was designed specifically for combat was the Defaint. So, they need to make it MORE offensive, but not much, just enough to make it viable for VAs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 56
12-05-2010, 06:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
First we need to understand the difference between a Refit and a Retrofit.
Truth be told, I do not agree that there actually is a difference. Both terms are used in hard canon interchangably. The "Lakota-Refit" did not make the ship appear any different from a standard Excelsior-class.
Moreover, real world usage of the term "refit" actually doesn't even have to mean more than taking on supplies and ammunition.

The way I handle it, I'm simply using "refit" as an abbreviation for "retrofit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdidy View Post
The Sovvie is one of only two canon ships that were designed with combat in mind, along with the Defiant. All of the other Starships where designed to be explorers first, and combat as a defense, the Sovereign was designed for war and it was the most heavily armed ship during the Dominion War.
And that's why the Sovereign is called a "type-2 explorer" and did not show up even once during the Dominion War, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 57
12-07-2010, 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Truth be told, I do not agree that there actually is a difference. Both terms are used in hard canon interchangably. The "Lakota-Refit" did not make the ship appear any different from a standard Excelsior-class.
Moreover, real world usage of the term "refit" actually doesn't even have to mean more than taking on supplies and ammunition.

The way I handle it, I'm simply using "refit" as an abbreviation for "retrofit".

And that's why the Sovereign is called a "type-2 explorer" and did not show up even once during the Dominion War, right?
Refit in terms of Star Trek means upgrading the ship.

Also, the term "Type 2 Explorer" appeared only on a poster, but not on screen, so it is not canon. It didn't appear during the Dominion War because at the time, very few where made, and because of their rarity and importance, where most likely not used as much as the more common and just as good Galaxy. Also, we actually didn't see ALL of the battles during the Dominion War, so the Sovereigns where probably stationed at other places.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 58
12-08-2010, 05:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdidy View Post
Refit in terms of Star Trek means upgrading the ship.
Exactly - which is why I'm using the two terms interchangably. The shows don't make a difference between them, so I'll stick to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdidy View Post
Also, the term "Type 2 Explorer" appeared only on a poster, but not on screen, so it is not canon.
When it's a poster for the on-screen thing, I consider it canon enough - at least way more than the "warship" idea that some people are attributing to this vessel without any official proof at all. Why would the Federation even design a warship when she's not in, nor preparing for one? Apart from the general aversion of the UFP concerning such vessels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 59
12-08-2010, 06:45 AM
Wow I agree with Valias, I have to mark that day in my Calendar.

1st: There is no diffrence between "Refit" and "Retrofit". Refit in Star Trek simply means Upgrading an older ship with newer Technolongie. I does not matter at all if that changes the appearence of the ship at all.
Retrofit is a Cryptic term for those Vice Admiral ships.... basicly meaning the same.

2nd: The Souverign may be a little older in that time, but after all it is just ONE skin for the Assault Cruiser, the OTHER ships wich are Skins for that ship are not that old.

3rd: Right: the term "Explorer II" may not be a Canon, but the Idea that the Souverign was build with "war in mind" has not even a non-conon source that is even close to be taken serious.

To me it appears that the Souverign is nothing but the "newest" version of Starfleets alround-ship (like Galaxy, Ambassador, Exclesior and Constitution were before); other then Ships like the Defaint or the Intrepit or Orberth or Miranda class ships with have a more "Special" task (Fighting, Science ect).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 60
12-08-2010, 09:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Exactly - which is why I'm using the two terms interchangably. The shows don't make a difference between them, so I'll stick to that.

When it's a poster for the on-screen thing, I consider it canon enough - at least way more than the "warship" idea that some people are attributing to this vessel without any official proof at all. Why would the Federation even design a warship when she's not in, nor preparing for one? Apart from the general aversion of the UFP concerning such vessels.
Actually, no, here is the CANON definition for "Retrofit".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Memory Alpha
A retrofit is the installation of updated equipment aboard a starship. It differs from a refit in that the vessel's overall structure remains unchanged in the process - the components in question are simply swapped out. A retrofit may not require a spacedock.
Also, you are diving into "Personal Canon." The only thing that can be considered canon is if it appears on screen. If you find that term being used for the Sovereign during one of the movies, then it can be considered canon. Also, the Sovereign was designed for the DOMINION WAR. So they NEEDED a heavy-hitting vessel to be able to defeat the Dominion, also, she was one of the many starships (Along with the Defiant, Akira, and Steamrunner) that where designed to fight the Borg.

Also, from what we have seen, she is better designed for combat, with 16 Phaser arrays, 3 forward photon torpedo tubes, 1 forward quantum torpedo tube, and 6 rear torpedo tubes, she has more weapons than the previous Galaxy, With 14 phasers and only 2 torpedo launchers.

Also, if I agree that the posters are canon, then at what point did we see the USS Enterprise fire on Regula Station during Wrath of Khan?
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