Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 61
10-26-2010, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
It's not a violation of EULA. It was a bug. Some people took advantage of the opportunity before it got fixed, and it certainly was no secret. This happens all the time in RL.
This is a game you're participating in, not your real life. You don't make the rules in an online game, the company hosting them does.

Also, in reference to the parts of your statement I underlined, exploiting bugs in the game is most definitely against the EULA and ToS. I suggest you brush up on them if you're forgotten that. Listen to what you're saying: people took advantage of the opportunity presented by a bug before it got fixed. That's the very definition of exploiting a bug.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 62
10-26-2010, 04:03 PM
Well... I guess if I actually needed some EC I could still go make plenty of it very fast. The point is that it is pointless for me at this point (like that...3 point words in one sentence?) to really try and do anything... I don't need EC... I've earned way more emblems than I could ever really use, there are no items that I need to buy. I've got as many accolades as I care to grind for.

This "bug" does in fact still exist... I tested it a little while ago. I've cut my game time from 8-14 hours a Day to 1 hour or so a week.

Not much for me to do until the UGC Foundry comes up for testing. I suppose mental jousting on this forum is about the only "productive" thing to do by helping shape the future of our Beloved Game.

I guess it would be pretty boring here as well without someone to challenge our different ideas.

I'm a little disappointed that my more politically based economic ideas that were previously posted did not get the attention I thought was warranted, but I can't say as I blame anyone for avoiding those nasty pits I left lying in wait.

At least I got some nice Lap-Dog Barks....

While it was never my intention to purposely provoke anyone, I do enjoy the conversation and hope that the result will be a better game for everyone.

By having open discussions perhaps we can forge a better tomorrow for all players regardless of their different views.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 63
10-26-2010, 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
Ok then... so you say that it is now fixed and I can go buy and sell whatever I want, when & where I want?

D'stahl says the error was at outpost 3? What if I said he was wrong & the same situation still exists after the "fix"?

Is it still an exploit to make money trading commodities between different systems? Even after it has been supposedly fixed?

Is the existing situation an error? a "bug"? an exploit?

Is it working as intended & who says what the intention is supposed to be?
I'm highlighting the important parts:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
Despite what the patch note says - this was a serious bug and the prices being offered on Outpost 3 were not intended. The store is now fixed and set to the standard price structure.
What does common sense tell you, Napoleon_BlownApart?

Please do not mention further details of this exploit on the forums, as that is likely to get you into trouble since its also against the forum usage rules. It has already been reported to Cryptic through other channels.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 64
10-26-2010, 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
These people play ALL the TIME and just make lotsa EC and totally ruin the game for me so they should be punished. They should be kicked out of StarFleet for profiteering and have all their stuff confiscated, get demoted permanently & have all Starbase access denied & get barred from the exchange. Then I'll have a decent chance of being able to compete.
This thread has been an interesting read. However, why should I be punished just because I play alot on the weekends? That makes no sense what so ever. It is a game that is meant to be played. The amount of hours depend on you. You shouldn't let that ruin the game for you, but barring people from the exchange and demoting characters for playing alot is just crazy. And yes, I can make lots of EC quickly if I wanted to just by selling the RA level loot I get, but I put most of it in the Fleet Bank to benefit the Fleet. That what a Fleet is for, to help each other and make friends. Alot of the RA items have a base price in the 10's of thousands of EC. I sell the items at vendors and even the replicator if I am not near a mearchant.

As for the amount of time I play....I play mainly on the weekends when I am off of work. I have noticed that it is real easy to lose track of the amount of time you have been playing. There have been some weekends were I spent most of the day in game. Maybe the Dev's could something like Guild Wars does. When you reach 2 hours of play, you get a message in the chat window saying you have playing X amount of hours, please take a break. And it will show that message every hour til you log-out. It doesn't force you to log out, but just a friendlly reminder that you are in a game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 65
10-26-2010, 05:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
This is a game you're participating in, not your real life. You don't make the rules in an online game, the company hosting them does.

Also, in reference to the parts of your statement I underlined, exploiting bugs in the game is most definitely against the EULA and ToS. I suggest you brush up on them if you're forgotten that. Listen to what you're saying: people took advantage of the opportunity presented by a bug before it got fixed. That's the very definition of exploiting a bug.
Actually, although the 60% sale was well known, it was NOT well known that it was a bug. Myself, I only found out that it was a bug after DStahl made a post about it in this thread. I always thought that it was working as intended, and that it was purposely set that way.

And though it is a game, the point I was trying to make is that you can't change human nature. People will do things to their own best interest no matter what the situation is. Whether it is ethically right or wrong is a separate issue, and many of these fall into a grey area.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 66
10-26-2010, 05:12 PM
Can you say pretty please with sugar on top?

While bugs can & will exist... I'm more interested in having a proper economy for all players to work within.

Having the ability to by and sell under various conditions is the normal state of our Real World economy.

We need our current system to be somewhat revised and make some kind of sense. As it stands now it all seems rather silly sometimes and I believe it is the new players that end up being at a disadvantage.

I suppose this semblance of "fairness" is what drives me ATM. It is all to easy for a determined player to use normal means of gameplay to accumulate any level of wealth that is desired. All it takes is the proper investment of time & effort.

The learning curve involved with this game puts new players at a serious disadvantage and they often are unwittingly exploited by unscrupulous players busy amassing their own pile of wealth.

I would be interested in solutions to our economic problems and hope that we can possibly come up with some "realistic" solutions that are not Draconian in scale but will help end some of the obvious exploitation that goes on here.

The attitude of "you better be quiet because I have already reported you" is kind of laughable...

I let the cat out of the bag long ago and anyone with half a Dog-brain could figure things out.

that being said... where do we go from here?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 67
10-26-2010, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
The learning curve involved with this game puts new players at a serious disadvantage and they often are unwittingly exploited by unscrupulous players busy amassing their own pile of wealth.
This will happen no matter what. Those types of people will always find a way. Back when I played Guild Wars, I saw people give a new player 100g for a extremely rare item that normally fetches between 6-8 thousand gold.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 68
10-26-2010, 05:37 PM
Perhaps I need to explain the "Duality" of my posts on this particular topic....

Many of my posts intentionally contain concepts that some would consider Absurd on their face. However, with proper reflection I've attempted to portray very different "economic philosophies" that exist in our current real world lives.

We will find ourselves somewhere in the middle of both extremes and have choices to make in the interests of fairness & equality among all players.

I've been using the current/past "crisis" as a means of opening some dialogue and trying to see where the true problems are.

Obviously the Dev's have missed something, but more to the point is that we have a lot of players in a strange economy that is not very realistic and has some serious problems.

Calling for player sanctions is not very productive, but fixing some of the problems is in everyone's best interest.

Overall this has been somewhat entertaining but the real battle is still out there waiting to be fought in the arena of ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 69
10-26-2010, 06:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
Please do not mention further details of this exploit on the forums, as that is likely to get you into trouble since its also against the forum usage rules. It has already been reported to Cryptic through other channels.
The attitude of "you better be quiet because I have already reported you" is kind of laughable...
I'm afraid you've misunderstood. I reported the exploit (not you) to Cryptic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 70
10-26-2010, 06:45 PM
Well.... in all fairness, I'm not the one who has called for actions against players who have "participated" in the commerce that is in question here. (well, actually I did in a sarcastic manner)

I think that is what really gets some people riled up a little bit. We were having a "discussion" about the situation and someone started calling for sanctions. This does not promote a reasonable dialogue between reasonable people.

I'm afraid you've gotten yourself a label as some sort of tattle-tale, or goody-goody two shoes or some such nonsense. I truly believe that name calling is somewhat juvenile, but this is what we've got.

Perhaps we can move on & discuss something relevant to the issues at hand.

The real question is - "should there be (or maybe - Is there?) some kind of commerce in commodities that players can participate in without running afoul of some in game mechanic that currently exists as a "bug"?

and - "Is there any real reason for these commodities to even exist in their current form without some means of making a profit outside of ATP missions?"
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