Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 71
10-26-2010, 09:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
I'm afraid you've gotten yourself a label as some sort of tattle-tale, or goody-goody two shoes or some such nonsense. I truly believe that name calling is somewhat juvenile, but this is what we've got.
I'm perfectly fine with being known as someone who is anti-exploit and anti-exploiter. And, in all honesty, I wouldn't want to spend my gaming time with someone who is all too happy to abuse and exploit bugs, particularly economy bugs, and doesn't understand the harmful impact they can have both on other players and the health of the game.

I'm also not interested in being a forum or gaming buddy with anyone who refuses to use common sense to recognize the obvious differences between right and wrong in a multiplayer gaming environment whenever it happens to get in the way of a personal advancement opportunity.

So, you may continue labeling me as a "tattle-tale", "goody-goody two shoes", or whatever other names you feel the urge to call me. And on that note, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the practice of name calling is quite juvenile.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 72
10-27-2010, 12:24 AM
Well... at least we can agree on one thing & that is a start towards finding some common ground.

I actually went & played for a while (I had been taking a well needed break for a week or so..) and was pleasantly surprised to actually enjoy myself.

I found out that the economy hasn't crashed & the STO world seems to be functioning well.

The exchange seemed rather calm with less stupid listings.

& yes while I might seem like an abusing arrogant snob I assure you that the small amount of "cargo runs" I've done it is a very small percentage of what I've earned throughout my career. It was far less than what I made grinding DSE's back in the day trying to get Blue drops or craft them myself, let alone what I've sold for emblems earned.

What is annoying to me is that you concentrate on personal things but have yet to address the economic fixes that may be needed to add to our experience, rather than injure all of us - or- at best how to fix the lame thing that we have to work with.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
10-27-2010, 01:21 PM
Napoleon, you are my hero...

I can respect Combadge for his opinion and wanting of a correction to keep things of getting out of hand.

What I find disgusting is that he is calling for the heads of thousands of STO players that have used this "feature/bug" (whatever it was).

I can honestly tell you that nothing would be worse for the STO economy than a mass walk-out of the game. Can't have an in-game economy with no one in-game.

I will bet that Cryptic won't even consider disciplinary action against ANYONE involved because they can see the reports of all the activity and can see just how many people would need to be punished.

You punish that many people for what A LOT of people consider just playing the game as it was given, then all of them will take their monthly memberships elsewhere, I know I would.

Is it messed up that a bunch of people got rich, yea sure ok, I'll give you that. Fix the issue and move on. Calling for a Spanish Inquisition is just plain immature.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 74
10-27-2010, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CopperSol View Post
Napoleon, you are my hero...

I can respect Combadge for his opinion and wanting of a correction to keep things of getting out of hand.

What I find disgusting is that he is calling for the heads of thousands of STO players that have used this "feature/bug" (whatever it was).

I can honestly tell you that nothing would be worse for the STO economy than a mass walk-out of the game. Can't have an in-game economy with no one in-game.

I will bet that Cryptic won't even consider disciplinary action against ANYONE involved because they can see the reports of all the activity and can see just how many people would need to be punished.

You punish that many people for what A LOT of people consider just playing the game as it was given, then all of them will take their monthly memberships elsewhere, I know I would.

Is it messed up that a bunch of people got rich, yea sure ok, I'll give you that. Fix the issue and move on. Calling for a Spanish Inquisition is just plain immature.
I believe I made it clear earlier in the thread that disciplinary action could come in many forms, including simply removing the currency that was gained through abusing the bug. It doesn't necessarily have to be permanent account bannings.

However, there's abuse, and then there's abuse. I have a difficult time finding sympathy for anyone who made large amounts of credits off this bug. Do you realize that it was possible to make over HALF A MILLION credits per 10 minute round trip? Much more money than that per trip, actually, if you were clever with it. So when you see players commenting that they made 5+ million credits on this "feature".. at what point do you suspect that these are examples of people who were not "confused", but rather exploiters who knew exactly what they were doing?

Some of the posters keep suggest that credits are useless in this game. Which begs the question: if credits are so useless, why were players willing to exploit millions of them off this bug? Should someone looking for a fair PvP match not care that his opponent outfitted his ship with the best bridge officers and bridge officers abilities money can buy, when that money came in the truckload from an exploit? Should honest players not be annoyed when the prices on items they want to purchase off the exchange bump upwards because money is no object for someone who can abuse a bug to earn half a million credits every 10 minutes?

Sincerely - no offense meant, but you have to be either incredibly naive or brand new to online gaming to honestly believe that everyone who abused this bug is completely shocked to discover that the "feature" that allowed them to earn 500,000+ energy credits every 10 minutes was actually unintentional. What's more likely is that they were, in fact, completely aware that they were participating in an exploit (as Napolean_BlownApart so bluntly put it: "It was a bug. Some people took advantage of the opportunity before it got fixed.." - that's the definition of exploiting or abusing a bug). And yet, sadly, the only surprise for many of these players is that someone is calling for disciplinary action to be taken against their accounts because of it.

And isn't that surprise the real problem? Because if you're surprised that participating in exploits and abusing bugs can lead to trouble for your account, then clearly some better examples need to be made to get the point across, because it would seem some people don't understand that cheating is wrong and actually has consequences.

So, if you're looking for something to be disgusted by, rather than focusing on my requests to the developers to follow through with their warnings in the EULA and ToS, why don't you instead focus on the fact that some players are willing to do whatever it takes to give themselves an advantage in this game, regardless of the problems it causes for the health of the game and the rest of the community. Because that's disgusting. To use your terms, it's "disgusting" that a team of developers recently lost their jobs because another MMO went down in flames, in large part due to out of control cheating and exploitation by "immature" players - in a video game, of all things. It's like gambling with someone's livelihood just to get ahead in a game of Chutes and Ladders. That's disgusting. So, yes, if I were an STO developer and players were putting my game, my job, and my company at risk because they can't use some common sense and not exploit obvious bugs, I would be swinging that ban-hammer far and wide. Because MMO communities are better off without those kinds of unscrupulous players.

Frankly, I find your choice in heroes disturbing, to say the least.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
10-27-2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I believe I made it clear earlier in the thread that disciplinary action could come in many forms, including simply removing the currency that was gained through abusing the bug. It doesn't necessarily have to be permanent account bannings.

However, there's abuse, and then there's abuse. I have a difficult time finding sympathy for anyone who made large amounts of credits off this bug. Do you realize that it was possible to make over HALF A MILLION credits per 10 minute round trip? Much more money than that per trip, actually, if you were clever with it. So when you see players commenting that they made 5+ million credits on this "feature".. at what point do you suspect that these are examples of people who were not "confused", but rather exploiters who knew exactly what they were doing?

Some of the posters keep suggest that credits are useless in this game. Which begs the question: if credits are so useless, why were players willing to exploit millions of them off this bug? Should someone looking for a fair PvP match not care that his opponent outfitted his ship with the best bridge officers and bridge officers abilities money can buy, when that money came in the truckload from an exploit? Should honest players not be annoyed when the prices on items they want to purchase off the exchange bump upwards because money is no object for someone who can abuse a bug to earn half a million credits every 10 minutes?

Sincerely - no offense meant, but you have to be either incredibly naive or brand new to online gaming to honestly believe that everyone who abused this bug is completely shocked to discover that the "feature" that allowed them to earn 500,000+ energy credits every 10 minutes was actually unintentional. What's more likely is that they were, in fact, completely aware that they were participating in an exploit (as Napolean_BlownApart so bluntly put it: "It was a bug. Some people took advantage of the opportunity before it got fixed.." - that's the definition of exploiting or abusing a bug). And yet, sadly, the only surprise for many of these players is that someone is calling for disciplinary action to be taken against their accounts because of it.

And isn't that surprise the real problem? Because if you're surprised that participating in exploits and abusing bugs can lead to trouble for your account, then clearly some better examples need to be made to get the point across, because it would seem some people don't understand that cheating is wrong and actually has consequences.

So, if you're looking for something to be disgusted by, rather than focusing on my requests to the developers to follow through with their warnings in the EULA and ToS, why don't you instead focus on the fact that some players are willing to do whatever it takes to give themselves an advantage in this game, regardless of the problems it causes for the health of the game and the rest of the community. Because that's disgusting. To use your terms, it's "disgusting" that a team of developers recently lost their jobs because another MMO went down in flames, in large part due to out of control cheating and exploitation by "immature" players - in a video game, of all things. It's like gambling with someone's livelihood just to get ahead in a game of Chutes and Ladders. That's disgusting. So, yes, if I were an STO developer and players were putting my game, my job, and my company at risk because they can't use some common sense and not exploit obvious bugs, I would be swinging that ban-hammer far and wide. Because MMO communities are better off without those kinds of unscrupulous players.

Frankly, I find your choice in heroes disturbing, to say the least.

Anything you say boss. Let me ask you something though, is it lonely up there on that pedastal?

At the end of the day, Cryptic isn't going to do anything to anyone. So get over it. Everyone that jumped on the chance to make some creds got away with it and there isn't ANYTHING you can do about it.

Sorry your morals got you left behind, but hey thats life.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 76
10-27-2010, 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combadge
I believe I made it clear earlier in the thread that disciplinary action could come in many forms, including simply removing the currency that was gained through abusing the bug. It doesn't necessarily have to be permanent account bannings.

However, there's abuse, and then there's abuse. I have a difficult time finding sympathy for anyone who made large amounts of credits off this bug. Do you realize that it was possible to make over HALF A MILLION credits per 10 minute round trip? Much more money than that per trip, actually, if you were clever with it. So when you see players commenting that they made 5+ million credits on this "feature".. at what point do you suspect that these are examples of people who were not "confused", but rather exploiters who knew exactly what they were doing?

Some of the posters keep suggest that credits are useless in this game. Which begs the question: if credits are so useless, why were players willing to exploit millions of them off this bug? Should someone looking for a fair PvP match not care that his opponent outfitted his ship with the best bridge officers and bridge officers abilities money can buy, when that money came in the truckload from an exploit? Should honest players not be annoyed when the prices on items they want to purchase off the exchange bump upwards because money is no object for someone who can abuse a bug to earn half a million credits every 10 minutes?

Sincerely - no offense meant, but you have to be either incredibly naive or brand new to online gaming to honestly believe that everyone who abused this bug is completely shocked to discover that the "feature" that allowed them to earn 500,000+ energy credits every 10 minutes was actually unintentional. What's more likely is that they were, in fact, completely aware that they were participating in an exploit (as Napolean_BlownApart so bluntly put it: "It was a bug. Some people took advantage of the opportunity before it got fixed.." - that's the definition of exploiting or abusing a bug). And yet, sadly, the only surprise for many of these players is that someone is calling for disciplinary action to be taken against their accounts because of it.

And isn't that surprise the real problem? Because if you're surprised that participating in exploits and abusing bugs can lead to trouble for your account, then clearly some better examples need to be made to get the point across, because it would seem some people don't understand that cheating is wrong and actually has consequences.

So, if you're looking for something to be disgusted by, rather than focusing on my requests to the developers to follow through with their warnings in the EULA and ToS, why don't you instead focus on the fact that some players are willing to do whatever it takes to give themselves an advantage in this game, regardless of the problems it causes for the health of the game and the rest of the community. Because that's disgusting. To use your terms, it's "disgusting" that a team of developers recently lost their jobs because another MMO went down in flames, in large part due to out of control cheating and exploitation by "immature" players - in a video game, of all things. It's like gambling with someone's livelihood just to get ahead in a game of Chutes and Ladders. That's disgusting. So, yes, if I were an STO developer and players were putting my game, my job, and my company at risk because they can't use some common sense and not exploit obvious bugs, I would be swinging that ban-hammer far and wide. Because MMO communities are better off without those kinds of unscrupulous players.

Frankly, I find your choice in heroes disturbing, to say the least.

......tldr
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 77
10-27-2010, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turd_Furgeson
......tldr
Your loss, as it's an easy read. I use punctuation and everything.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
10-27-2010, 08:42 PM
Happens everyday in the stock market. Play the economy and someone wins, and someone looses...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 79
10-27-2010, 09:18 PM
Wow... I guess no one wants to talk about Economics and how it is supposed to function.

Is there supposed to be commodity trading & cargo transport in STO or not?

If yes, then where?

If No, then why have commodities and vendors for them at all? We have replicators.

I'm just saying that Natural Forces will find any opportunity for profit.

Shall we punish every Ferengi player who actually does trading?

It would be better if there was a decent Economic Structure, but we have a Hodge Podge system invented by some short sighted necessity.

Can we discuss the real problems with the "fixed" economy... ?

You see when there is an influx of EC on the market then the market moves and clears out.... but demand comes on when new ships are released. The items get used and disappear as bound items.

Smart "Marketeers" anticipate demand and buy low, hold items and wait for the New Ship and already have cornered the Market on the most desirable items.

I myself never really cared about "playing the market", although I will sell very rare or valuable items from drops or from emblems. Right before the Purple items & STF's came out I dumped all my hoarded blue's from drops & crafting... But it was Stupidly expensive back then as it is now.... The difference is that you can earn them with Dailies.... I had to grind all of mine back in the day in +2DSE's.

I guess the point is.... What is the Market Suppose to Be? What are the rules? I did not reprogram the vendor that sold me that stuff.... This is how markets work

Perhaps Cryptic is secretly manipulating the EC supply to keep players happy and keep the market flowing?

Are there any Specific Economic Guidelines or Someone in charge of the STO Economy ?

I think we have been pretty much left on our own in this regard.... I guess if I thought EC really made any difference between my two Alts I might be more concerned about a "bug" that has been "fixed"
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 80
10-27-2010, 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon_BlownApart
Wow... I guess no one wants to talk about Economics and how it is supposed to function.

Is there supposed to be commodity trading & cargo transport in STO or not?

If yes, then where?

If No, then why have commodities and vendors for them at all? We have replicators.
If you're asking if STO is supposed to have EvE or Earth and Beyond style trading where you purchase supplies cheaply from one location and sell them for a profit at another location, the obvious answer is no. I think the developers labeling the only recent example of that a bug and then patching it away is proof of that thinking.

Also, your character is a starship captain commanding a vessel deployed by Starfleet (or the KDF) - for purposes which don't include playing freighter merchant for profit. That's a different game. And delivering commodities to a planet is a relief mission, not an example of you being a trader.

If you're saying players should be able to create merchant trade captains who aren't tied to Starfleet or the KDF, with gameplay that's focused on ferrying cargo around, well that's probably something you want to bring up in a thread in the suggestions forum.
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