Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Having trouble with PvP...
10-25-2010, 04:05 PM
Been in about 10 pvp arena matches the last two days. Playing Fedside. Vice Admiral. They seem incredibly one sided... the Klingons say "Oh well, we are just a million times better than you..." which could be true, I admit. In those 10 games... 7 came out to 1/15, 2 where 0/15 and the remaining was the star of the show at 2/15. Utterly brutal, short, nasty little games that where entirely pointless and not the slightest bit of a "good game". A "good game" is where there is an actual fight, with victory at least being challenged.

I've not seen anything close to that, I've just seen Feds effortlessly get blown up. No 'gg'.

Now, here are a few things I'd be willing to admit. I see a lot of Fed players do things that strike me counter-productive to life, such as the escorts flying off the handle first thing and charging into the Klingons groups, and die instantly. Or Cruisers full-impulsing right into a similar mob with predictable results. But I've also been in groups where we Feds did more or less stick together and the results where the same anyway.

I, personally, generally don't die a whole lot. But I think I've only ever gotten a single kill in a match and most matches my guns never penetrate enemy shields. But at least I'm not greatly contributing to the enemy kill count...

So I guess I'm asking Federation players specifically, I assume that at least some Fed pvpers get kills and win matches.. how? Do you just never play in anything but a pre-made group? Something else?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-25-2010, 04:49 PM
Playing with at least one other person who knows what they are doing and will support the little escort usually makes my life a lot easier. I'm not saying it has to be a premade either, because sometimes I luck out and end up with another person who is good at what they do - which makes me look better at what I do, lol.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-25-2010, 05:05 PM
Steves right if you see people not doing silly things... group with them and ask them if they want to go again. After a few matches you might build yourself a little pre made pugglet.

Honestly the first few times you pvp its going to be frustrating. In the end team work is what matters most. I still play my fed anough to know how little of it there is in fed land... but there are a few that play well. If you get in a match with Hale... team up.

If you are not sure what all the counters are... go through and learn as many as you can. If you are playing klinks learn the following.....

Aux to Damp Counters Shock wave.

Evasive and spin a facing can save your life.

Emergency power to Shields with a Transfer Shield Strength will get you close to shield cap.

Brace for Impact... if you shield starts dropping hit that too.


Mostly stick with it... and you may not always get an answer but it if you ask the guy that just blew you up what you did wrong... they might just tell you.

Have fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-25-2010, 05:17 PM
Must resist, must resist....

.... forget it, its star trek and resistance is futile.

Sadly your not the only fed player to experience both the incredibly one sided PvP or have the klingon players give you the Learn to play speech. There are already several threads running on the same topic so I won't go down the route they have gone as its not productive.

Theres only so much you can do to improve the situation. Try different set ups (ships, officer abilities and your own skill sets) and don't be afraid to sit there in a battle and watch what the klinks do. You'll get hammered but your getting hammered anyway. You'll start to learn styles of play and particularly what certain groups and individuals do, whose squishy and who isnt, and you can try and come up with ways to get kills. Thats about the only thing that makes pvp interesting any more.

If you find you getting ganked by focus fire or by the 5 billion pets on the screen, put your feet up, watch some tv and wait for the game to end. Sod all you can do about it.

You can try and join a fleet and play premades if thats your thing, but if your a normal person and play pug's then it's a case of get used to it. Watching and figuring out tactics that work for you will get you some kills in some games.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5 Resistance is for the weak.
10-25-2010, 06:51 PM
Try not to cry when your opponents don't play like you think they should. It doesn't help to berate someone on your side when they don't play like you think they should either. I'm not saying you do, but people around here get caught in this trap where they have expectations for what other people should do. If you have a hard time and ask for advice, listen to it and experiment with it. People around here get caught in this trap where they act like they want help, but in reality they already know how they want to play so they ask but don't really listen. Then it's just the same argument over and over again.

You can get upset about mechanics in the game. You can complain when friends fly together against your PuG. I don't know a lot, but I can tell you that this doesn't really help improve your situation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-25-2010, 06:54 PM
And remember there is always FvF as well

May not be Klinks but you can practice technique at least. And it can be fun also
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-25-2010, 07:38 PM
First of all, congrats on wanting to learn how to play. This, in the long run, will make you a much better player than the average Federation player.

Until extremely recently, players spamming about Klingons being OP was in fact the opposite. They flew significantly more fragile ships with only 1 or 2 neato tricks up their sleeves which, if countered, got them slaughtered.

Ask about any klingon, and they usually will tell you this: "Oh yeah, we easily win 39 out of 40 pug matches, but the 40th, well, that one we don't loose by a little - we stand no chance at all"

Now, two recent changes may have turned the balance: Carriers are more powerful, and a new T5 battle cruiser was released that is better than what they used to have. Whether this has overpowered Klingons or not is hard to say with any certainty - I think we all first need to learn to counter the new threat, and once we have learned to, then we can gauge this issue more effectively.

So much for the long-ass intro into the subject matter

=====

General tactics you need to employ:

- Stay together, and heal each other. Klingons (and anyone else experienced in pvp) will call out targets even over chat text and focus fire someone. If everyone else doesn't start supporting that ship, it will die. Once it dies, your entire team is weaker. This is particularly true of escorts.

A cruiser that just sits there patting himself on the back because no other ship can kill it 1 on 1 and only has the ability to heal itself is a waste of space that is overall weakening the team. Doesn't mean a cruiser has to be a healer, it does mean it has to have SOME healing to support vs focus fire, and the battle awareness to use it.

- Escorts and science ships are your greatest assets, and yet if not supported they are your greatest weakness. If nobody else (say the escorts.. but also the cruisers) doesn't fire at the enemy the science ship just shockwaved and stripped of buffs, you just wasted a huge opportunity. If you don't support your escorts then they might as well not even fight, they don't stand a chance and will have to rely on the FAR less effective run the heck away and come back later method of fighting, which means for much of the match you'll be fighting at un-even odds.

- Don't full impulse into battle unless you can make a difference. For example, a defiant cloaked full impulsing to get back into the Fray, popping a weapon battery and decloaking to assist just helped out. Don't be afraid to regroup.

- Don't be afraid to take leadership of the group if it turns out to not have any. Add everyone into the group, explain your basic strategies, target raptors first, birds of prey second.

- You HAVE to carry anti cloak and anti movement debuffs when fighting birds of prey. Among others: sensor scan, charged particle burst, tractor beam, warp plasma, chroniton mines, target engines, gravity well, photonic shock wave, etc. -

You clearly don't need to all of the above in the team, but if you have none, you just made the fight insanely harder.

- Carry a second set of bridge officers (or a 3rd) to adapt to different strategies: Enemies using shockwave to stun you a lot? Use auxiliary to dampeners. Scatter shot/Fire at will vs "Pets" like photonic fleet. (May also be the key to deal with those carriers, we'll see) Etc etc. All powers have counters.

- Don't go for the bait. The one klingon (usually a carrier, or a cruiser, but sometimes a single bird of prey setup for tanking and little to no dps) will appear as the single "lone" target. Don't chase after it, tell your party to stay together. By all means start shooting at it, but always keep in mind this isn't your real target. As soon as the raptors decloak, thats the real alpha strike, that's when you have to heal their target, and when you all have to switch to your real target.

- Beware of chasing Klingons. It could be an ambush, so only chase them when it's clear they're very hurt, and you have a way to counter their cloak (say by disabling it before ), and their speed. Sometimes staying in and changing targets to the remaining targets, which are now weaker in numbers, is the smarter thing to do.

- A bird of prey (or any other cloaking ship) can't heal shields while cloaked (usually.. stupid bugs), nor can they activate healing powers, so best they can do is pop a hazard emitters as they're cloaking so they heal a bit while cloaked. Oher Klingons CAN heal the cloaked enemies however. It also often reveals their position though, so you now have a good place to drop that charged particle burst or sensor scan

- Don't listen to anyone whining about power X, learn to counter it, and carry counters for it, or make sure someone else does.

Ok enough rambling, there are many more tips but this is already long enough that not even I will re-read it to proof it , so I just leave you with:

- Make friends, this is an MMO after all. Join a fleet, or start paying attention for the competent players and ask to be friends with them, and try to team up again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-25-2010, 07:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Try not to cry when your opponents don't play like you think they should. It doesn't help to berate someone on your side when they don't play like you think they should either.
Er, I never said anything bad about the Klingon players, except that they are very good. You hear the L2P a lot, but there are plenty of Klingon players that are good chaps.

Quote:
I'm not saying you do, but people around here get caught in this trap where they have expectations for what other people should do.
Well, PvP in STO is team based, at least it is for the Klingons. If my team isn't being part of a team, is making no effort to be part of a team, and the last 15 matches have been within 2 points of 0/15 every game... I would think some expectations would be quite reasonable. I agree there is no point venting -- but I didn't.

Quote:
If you have a hard time and ask for advice, listen to it and experiment with it. People around here get caught in this trap where they act like they want help, but in reality they already know how they want to play so they ask but don't really listen. Then it's just the same argument over and over again.
... which is precisely what is going on... the problem is, I can listen to advice, I can take advice. I do both. None of it helps. 0/15 every game.

Quote:
You can get upset about mechanics in the game. You can complain when friends fly together against your PuG. I don't know a lot, but I can tell you that this doesn't really help improve your situation.
Well, here is what I've learned recently. Here is some good, solid, truly helpful advice I got from some Klingons I was chatting with. DON'T PUG. Its a waste of time and you'll end up frustrated. It doesn't matter how good a job of your role you are doing if your the only one doing it. If your team isn't really a team then your headed to 0/15. Play with friends or with a PvP fleet or don't play PvP. Thats my opinion anyway Prove me wrong if you like, but you'll have to post videos
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-25-2010, 07:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by salsadoom View Post
Er, I never said anything bad about the Klingon players, except that they are very good. You hear the L2P a lot, but there are plenty of Klingon players that are good chaps.
They are also very experienced, because they have almost no PvE content. The average Klingon player at Captain level has already won over 1000 PvP matches. The average Fed at that level has played pvp once - in the match you're currently in
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-25-2010, 08:21 PM
No arguments here. I have to admit most of that wasn't even directed at you so much as towards some of the other folks around here who know they have it all figured out. Passive aggressiveness, it's just another character flaw.

You can PuG and win. I have plenty of screen shots that show it but that doesn't mean that "I" won. You don't have to fly premade, but there aren't many other ways to ensure that you have someone decent to fly with.
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