Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
10-27-2010, 01:32 PM
And yet again, I point out the likely scenario of appropriation of civilian hardware and refitting it up to starfleet specs. As long as the spaceframe of the ship in question is sufficient for the job then it would be more efficient to refit that ship with modern military equipment than to build a new ship from scratch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-27-2010, 01:36 PM
B/c Cryptic doesn't care about Star Trek....
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-27-2010, 01:36 PM
If they did not do it in the Dominion War, I fail to see why they would do it now. Refitting is also way more difficult than you might imagine. The 1701 was in drydock several months only for the TMP-Refit. That, and Starfleet personnel is not trained to operate and repair non-Starfleet issue technology. Just look at the problems they had with DS9.

It's a good excuse (and one I will try to remember when encountering one such ship), but it still doesn't make it less silly.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 24
10-27-2010, 01:38 PM
I would venture that at this point after hundreds of years of being together that Vulcan and Andorian, etc technology isn't that different.
Lt. Commander
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# 25
10-27-2010, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
If they did not do it in the Dominion War, I fail to see why they would do it now. Refitting is also way more difficult than you might imagine. The 1701 was in drydock several months only for the TMP-Refit. That, and Starfleet personnel is not trained to operate and repair non-Starfleet issue technology. Just look at the problems they had with DS9.

It's a good excuse (and one I will try to remember when encountering one such ship), but it still doesn't make it less silly.
Ah, but here's the thing... Unlike DS9, where the technology was from a completely different source (Cardassian design, built by Bajorans), Vulcans and Andorians have been part of the Federation from the beginning. It is likely that these races have both influenced, and been influenced by Starfleet tech. It is likely that "modern" versions of these ships use earlier iterations/less powerful versions of Starfleet equipment, making the ships easier to refit.

The time it takes to refit is certainly a factor... but bear in mind the fact that it will take just as long, if not longer to build a new space frame, and it will cost more resources than using something that you already have on hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by USS Parallax
I would venture that at this point after hundreds of years of being together that Vulcan and Andorian, etc technology isn't that different.
Exactly.
Lt. Commander
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# 26
10-27-2010, 01:57 PM
Hm. Good points. But the Dominion War argument still stands.

And lastly, even if you leave out the canon, it is also a matter of style. Starfleet has always been Starfleet. It just feels wrong to see this change. In a way, it's like the "theme park ambience" that already exists in the characters (see ESD) expanding into space. Makes you think how long it'll be until people fly Borg Spheres.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-27-2010, 02:03 PM
We have discussed this internally and there are some varying viewpoints and opinions just as much as are represented in this forum.

For the most part it boils down to fun and roleplaying and the fact that these ships can be considered part of the Federation (even though they aren't specifically Starfleet).

However - we have talked about the possibility of opening up "sub-factions" to represent other members within the Federation... i.e. you can create a Vulcan that starts on Vulcan and has a Vulcan version of Quinn who sends you to do the same Starfleet missions - however with a Vulcan slant. etc... but that is a big pie in the sky right now.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 28
10-27-2010, 02:07 PM
*shrugs* Surprised dstahl haven't closed this thread like he had with the enigeering report regarding the debate between having the Vulcan/Andorian/NX ships being present in STO....really all point is moot as the matter of when they show up in game and not "if".

Kinda funny to see this thread like others that doesn't really go anywhere really just like the NX ones. Just find it amusing to see people go at it......:p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-27-2010, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Hm. Good points. But the Dominion War argument still stands.
Not quite. Basically I see this as the Federation having a rather large amount of old, decomissioned Excelsior and Miranda (+variants) class ships lying around that they could reactivate. However, as the war went on we began to see more and more of what are "affectionately" known as kitbashes. Granted, on screen they were most often in the background, letting the more well know ships set the stage, but they were there. May I point out Ex Atris Scientia's article on the DS9 kitbashes here. Heck, even the Centaur Class, one of the Miranda variants we have available at Ensign is a kitbash. It isn't inconcievable (especially after looking at the hideous Yeager Class) that had the war lasted any longer that the federation would have started drafting and refitting civilian ships into the fleet (if they hadn't started doing so already off screen).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
And lastly, even if you leave out the canon, it is also a matter of style. Starfleet has always been Starfleet. It just feels wrong to see this change. In a way, it's like the "theme park ambience" that already exists in the characters (see ESD) expanding into space. Makes you think how long it'll be until people fly Borg Spheres.
Style becomes less important when you're losing ships faster than you can build them and as long as we don't start seeing non-federation member ships appearing in the lists of playable ships, I'm not too worried... the moment that a Borg sphere, Jem Hadar fighter, or Kazon Battlecruiser looks like it's going to be added to Starfleet's ranks, then I'll be right there with you, decrying the addition. Though if the Borg were added as a playable faction, sign me up for one of those spheres and resistance will be futile
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-27-2010, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
We have discussed this internally and there are some varying viewpoints and opinions just as much as are represented in this forum.

For the most part it boils down to fun and roleplaying and the fact that these ships can be considered part of the Federation (even though they aren't specifically Starfleet).

However - we have talked about the possibility of opening up "sub-factions" to represent other members within the Federation... i.e. you can create a Vulcan that starts on Vulcan and has a Vulcan version of Quinn who sends you to do the same Starfleet missions - however with a Vulcan slant. etc... but that is a big pie in the sky right now.

Nice idea. As for the people raising a stink over the there not Starfleet ships. Even if a planet is in the Federation they are alowed to have there own ships to protect there own planets. Sure they might not be a high tec as the ships of the main line, but they can still be around.
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