Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 391
05-08-2009, 08:52 PM
I thought the movie was great and I'm glad that Cryptic's found a way to tie in the two storylines. maybe this will lead to a game down the road that is set in the "new" timeline
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 392
05-08-2009, 09:30 PM
IMHO the movie was great! I don't think they could have done a better job of portraying the characters and I very much appreciated that they openly discussed the fact that their timeline had been altered. (The idea reminds me a bit of the mirror universe actually.) I also think Cryptic did a good job of connecting the history of the game to the events of the movie.

That said, it occurs to me that if there's no Romulan Star Empire then there's no Treaty of Algeron ... and that makes me wonder what became of the Interphase Cloaking Device prototype recovered from the Pegasus by Enterprise-D.

- SC
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 393
05-08-2009, 10:39 PM
So, Abram an Idiot. Destroyes Vulcan cause he not a Star Trek Fan, say he a moron.
People are speaking alternate reality which it has to be cause Vulcan is part of allot of Star trek Movies.

So Abrams again is a stupid moronic buffoon.

The movie good for it action and special effects, but to be Star trek Canon , it no way impossible.

So Abram should stay out of the Trek Universe, that much is clear and stay with ****** show like LOST.
Still with a lower class of scenarios cause Sci fi is obviously not your special area.

So can we expect to see some lame joke of the Original series to be produced?

Here a quesion that from another thread

is it Trekkie or Trekkers?

Well we can answer that for you

Trekkies- True hard core star Trek fans of Gene Roddenberry Real Universe

Trekkers- The fake wanna be Fans of the idiotic of JJAbrams fake Universe
Lt. Commander
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# 394
05-09-2009, 12:36 AM
I came out of that movie terribly conflicted!

Part of me felt truely lost and dishartend that anyone could do so much 'damage' to star trek canon in a single film.

To be fair, another part of me was vastly relieved that finally a story of such breath-taking awesomness could come from star trek! Yes its different to what were all comfortable with, but we can at least look Star Wars people in the eye and say if you want grand galactic adventure and edge of your seats story telling Star Trek has that too.

So while that may appear to be grandstanding for 'lowest common denominator' content, look at this way, at least we all have new 'canon' content to harass each other about!

As this is my first post, I want to say that I am looking forward to this game with the greatest anticipation of any other IP sequel to date (and Im a pretty big starwars, halo ect ect fan!)

Keep up the great work.

Scano out!
Lt. Commander
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# 395
05-09-2009, 12:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamscano View Post

So while that may appear to be grandstanding for 'lowest common denominator' content, look at this way, at least we all have new 'canon' content to harass each other about!



Scano out!

Star Trek 11 is not canon, as soon as it split off , it is it's own universe.

If people would treat it as such, it can be stomach.

If not, then we have these debates for years to come.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 396
05-09-2009, 05:30 AM
I agree with Kalorn, Star Trek 11 is not 'canon' and can't ever be! This is how I am going to file this movie and anything that follows its timeline.
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# 397
05-09-2009, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalorn View Post
Star Trek 11 is not canon, as soon as it split off , it is it's own universe.

If people would treat it as such, it can be stomach.

If not, then we have these debates for years to come.
Might as well accept that these debates will last for years. People will never agree to accept it an an alternate universe.
Lt. Commander
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# 398 Possible Solution
05-09-2009, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
That is not how time travel works in Star Trek. In every time travel episode in ST thus far, the person who goes back in time remains in the SAME "realty" they came from, and any changes they make affect the future of the SAME "reality" they came from.

If there were not the case, then there would be no point in trying to stop people from changing the past, since it wouldnt have any affect on the reality they came from. There would have been no point in the Borg trying to stop First Contact, since it wouldnt have affected the "reality" they came from. There would be no point in the Temporal Accords of the Temporal Cold War if any changes made in the past only created an "alternate reality" and did not affect the "main reality".

Again, in Star Trek, any changes made in the past affect the future of the SAME reality the person who made them came from. And it will be the same in the new movie unless specificly stated otherwise IN the movie.
This is a good point. However time is a very complex idea.
The new movie has created a possible time paradox. Nero's ship changed history which in turn could mean that his future self, in the new timeline, will no longer exist in a position to go back in time in the future to do it again. (This is unknown if this is the case. He could be in a position)

I hope I havn't lost anyone in a pile of confusion yet.

This is similar to the grandfather paradox. (The idea of going back in time and killing your own grandfather when he is a child. You would then never exist to carry out this act of murder. A paradox is born)

There are theoretical ways around this though. Nero travels back in time in his own universe. He changes history, which in turn will develop a new future. The original timeline however will still exist. As seen in a TNG episode every possible universe exists. (Episode Parallels with the huge fleet of Enterprises at the end)

The best way to view it is that Nero has now changed the timeline of his universe. Everything and everyone in it is now on a new path. (That's the ones that have a place in the new timline). The original timeline exists as a parallel universe. Perhaps this is linked to the new timeline to stop any paradox. One universe producing the changing effect for another universe.

I have probably lost a lot of people with this. People may wanna read this again if so. Hopefully people will understand my thinking out loud with this. Purely an idea that could allow for cannon to be kept and both timelines to exist.

I leave you with a quote from Chief O'Brien in the episode Visionary, "I hate temperal mechanics."
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# 399 It's not that simple
05-09-2009, 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
What is said outside of the movies is not canon, only what is said/show IN them. So unless the new movie explains this, what JJ says in an interview really doesnt matter.
I disagree with the last bit.
You are right that what is said or shown in the movies and tv series is cannon. However you also have backstage source as the next best thing. Not everything can be said or shown in a tv episode or film. You show what moves the story along. This is the same with a book. You write what moves the story forward.

Star Trek Countdown is an authorised book detailing the events up to the start of the movie. These were put in to help explain in more detail what is going on. (You could take authorised as meaning cannon as well).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 400
05-09-2009, 11:06 AM
SPOILERS AHEAD

Quote:
On Stardate 64444.5, the IRW Valdore reports unusual stellar activity, including a disturbance equivalent to a force seven ion storm. Romulus loses contact with Donatra's ship, and dispatches four D'deridex class warbirds to search for the Valdore.
The same 'disturbance equivalent to a force seven ion storm' that marked the arrival of Nero and Spock in the film, I take it. Fascinating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
That is not how time travel works in Star Trek. In every time travel episode in ST thus far, the person who goes back in time remains in the SAME "realty" they came from, and any changes they make affect the future of the SAME "reality" they came from.
Which is silly.

Yeah, that's how it has appeared to work in Star Trek, but it makes less sense than what quantum theory suggests. Couldn't it easily be argued that it only appeared that way to us because when the characters 'returned', they failed to travel back to the future they came from?

The fact that Star Trek has encouraged us to think of 'time' and 'reality' separately is itself a mess that I'm honestly eager to see cleaned up if possible. Star Trek hasn't typically been afraid to correct itself when we deduce that something about its fictional science is just false science. Look at how it has changed over the years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
If there were not the case, then there would be no point in trying to stop people from changing the past, since it wouldnt have any affect on the reality they came from. There would have been no point in the Borg trying to stop First Contact, since it wouldnt have affected the "reality" they came from. There would be no point in the Temporal Accords of the Temporal Cold War if any changes made in the past only created an "alternate reality" and did not affect the "main reality".
The parties involved may have believed otherwise if they remained consistently unable to actually return to the future they came from.

I know that's obviously not what those writers had in mind, but it is a way out of the contradiction. Hell, maybe traveling back to the future you came from is impossible without red matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Grand.Nagus View Post
Again, in Star Trek, any changes made in the past affect the future of the SAME reality the person who made them came from. And it will be the same in the new movie unless specificly stated otherwise IN the movie.
Which it does (with an insulting bludgeon, actually) on the bridge, shortly after they're first contacted by Nero, peaking when Uhura exclaims, 'An alternate reality!'

EDIT: Wow. I just realized that you posted this well before the movie was in theaters. Sorry about that.
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