Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 211
11-09-2010, 04:50 PM
Rikaelus, my friend, your idea is just not feasible. It definitely has its allure but why would Cryptic pay for something that they originally made and have spent months trying to allow us to have some fun by making our own stories? This isn't like Thomas_the_Cat, where they bought something that belonged to him, they own the rights to this, which means, that they have no responsibility in giving the author monetary compensation. Okay, maybe if a story was so good that they want to buy the mission, yes, the story belongs to the player, but it is using CRYPTICS tools on CRYPTICS game, that belongs to CRYPTIC. So if you don't like that you are not getting any money, don't use the tools. Personally, I'm going to make the story that has been brewing in my head since I first heard about this game into a mission for everyone to enjoy.

Now, as I said, the story belongs to the player, which means that they can take the mission down whenever they want, and if Cryptic wants to own the story they have to buy it. Cryptic might also do contests with some C-point reward in the future, I don't know.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 212
11-09-2010, 06:22 PM
Many variables in play here.

What is more important ?

Quality ?
Quantity ?

prob. a bit of both would be nice.

well lets assume that crypic makes all quality missions and are not a concern for now

That leaves the UGC ok, how do we get quality? For public consumption
(what folks play on thier own private holodeck is thier own concern)

you filter what comes out.

ok, how can we do that?

one of three ways

1. have one person (or very few) decide
2. have a larger group decide
3. have the masses decide

1# Have a very select group of folks decide what is public, was is not
Positive - you will have consistancy
Negative - very few new missions (they can only review stuff so fast)

2# Have a large group decide
Positive - more new missions
Negative - Who is in the group and can a large group agree?

3# Have the masses rate them and the best will rise to the top
Positive - allows the most new missions and will illuminate, over time the best
Negative - it will take a while before a good mission gets noticed

all 3 have thier good points and bad points

I will not state my preference, but there are the choices
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 213
11-09-2010, 07:29 PM
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
In principle I don't have a problem with that idea, but it doesn't scale. Someone who makes one mission of poor quality gets a free month? Too much reward.

An expansion to my proposal sort of covers this, though. If you were rewarded in C-Points that scaled with how much the mission was played, and if you could buy a month's subscription on the C-Store, you could effectively buy yourself free game time if your missions are popular and contribute enough to the game. Since $15 equates to 1200 C-Points, that's how many you'd have to earn... give or take.

It also has the side benefit of turning "Time Cards" into "C-Point Cards", which expands their usefulness. Got a friend who likes to buy ships on the C-Store? Buy them a C-Point Card worth $15. Or they can use it to buy game time. Either way. More flexible.
I think your suggestions/ideas are very reasonable and fair. I do hope they offer something like this. In addition to the creative energies beyond a good story (the rights of which will be given away) the time and effort spent on using the tools themselves should be enough for some level of compensation.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 214
11-17-2010, 04:25 PM
Offtopic (sorry)

@fatherfungus I find your avatar strangely alluring
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 215
11-18-2010, 08:04 AM
Originally Posted by StormShade
There's been talk about integrating a type of "featured episode" for community authored episodes as well. Were this to happen, the "featured community authored episode" would most likely get bumped to the top of the ratings list, and have a special icon next to it in the search results page for the duration that it is featured.

You would still need to search for a community authored episode, and you would start the episode the same way you would any other community authored episode.

However, as far as I know it's only something we're thinking about doing, and plans have yet to move beyond that point yet. What do you guys think of something like that?


I think that's a fantastic idea Stormshade.. I also think that after a few weeks we all (user and Cryptic) are going to be absolutely blown away by what people manage to come up with once the flood gates are open Hopefully fistfulls of fresh ideas once we have the tools will give Cryptic dev's a lot of new ideas for their own eps too.

A kickback of some free store points if your episode is selected as a 'featured episode' is a nice way to pay it back ot the community to, as much as the OP's post seemed like a joke, there is some good karma that would come out of 'you gave us an awesome mission, that the other players love, so here's something in return' .. It would also probably get a lot more people involved in Foundry, as theyd be trying to out-do each other to be on the top of 'this weeks list'
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 216
11-23-2010, 11:20 AM
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
That's your opinion, and I share it.

As I've said before, the reimbursement we seek isn't to substitute the simple desire to create. It's to offset the fact that Cryptic is making money on our creative works.

The problem is that it's unethical for Cryptic to make money on authors' work, which they're inherently doing by requiring a subscription to access it. If all someone wants to do is play the FanFic missions we make, they have to pay Cryptic monthly to access it. If the authors are compensated for their efforts then the ethical problem diminishes.

Here's an example.

Someone writes a series of FanFic UGC missions based on a storyline they've worked out with a friend. Their friend wants to experience it but doesn't have STO, and they really have no interest in STO otherwise. They buy STO and sign up for a monthly subscription to play the UGC missions taking place based on the storyline they've helped create.

That means that person would have bought STO specifically and totally on the basis not only of UGC
, but a single author's UGC.

Now, of course, Cryptic is entitled to profit. The UGC content is using their art assets, server resources, engine, etc. But it's that UGC content that brought them to the game, without which Cryptic wouldn't have made that profit at all. It's that UGC content they've played and has provided them with entertainment.

The author isn't entitled to to at least a small percentage of that "profit"?

Generalize that example to the greater game and the lines certainly blur, but UGC remains a selling point for the game. And if someone is creating missions that are entertaining Cryptic's subscribers, why shouldn't Cryptic reimburse them for making the game better for those subscribers? We're actively helping Cryptic get and keep subscribers, and in turn make money. It seems completely reasonable to me that some of that should trickle down.
Why does he buy the game when he just can try the mission with the friends account????
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 217
11-23-2010, 11:22 AM
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
I don't think anyone is suggesting the reimburse us in cash.
C-points is cash.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 218
11-23-2010, 11:26 AM
Originally Posted by Windchaser
Not only will you not be paid they will take your UGC story arcs and sell them in the c-store.
Well, that is not true. None from Cryptic has said that. UGC missions won't cost any more money than the monthly fee you already pay.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 219
11-23-2010, 11:27 AM
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
They might as well. It's already possible for them to make a quantifiable profit on the content we make. They might as well yank the popular missions and put them in the C-Store for a higher profit margin.

I wonder if people would still be insisting we don't deserve reimbursement if that were to happen.
That won't happen. But if they do, that is great. More money to make more content for the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 220
11-23-2010, 11:59 AM
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
As Nagus said above:

That means that what we make in the UGC system that goes on to be playable by subscribers is a part of the product Cryptic is selling and making profit on.

Whether they're sold in the C-Store or as part of the sum total of the game, Cryptic is getting money for it. The challenge is in quantifying how much our missions contribute to that sum total, which you can do by monitoring how much time is spent playing them.

Take a look here. I've run through a sample of the math to determine the potential value-add of a single mission and how the value of the reward scales proportionately.
It seems like you would be pleaed if the UGC never came to the game. If you are pushing Cryptic to pay you money to use a tool they created to be used internaly in Cryptic, then that will happen. Why start this complain when they give us something that we want?

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