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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Played a klingon since launch exclusively. Few weeks ago thought I'd see what the other side was like in PvP and rolled a Fed. I'd heard the whining from Feds about klingons being overpowered and dismissed it.

Now I'm not so sure. My impression over that last few weeks is that there are 3 areas that are a cause for concern.

1. BoPs - combination of alpha strike, battlecloak, and universal bridge stations in BoPs means they appear to be better than Fed escort equivalents. BoP players through their choice of bridge officers can build a BoP with much higher defense than Fed escorts without giving up any real offensive punch. If targetted good BoP players battlecloak well before they actually get in danger so they can return and deliver repeated alpha strikes. In PvP dps is king and the Klingon faction seems to put out double the dps in the matches I've been apart of recently. My assumption here is that Feds have basically given up on playing their escorts because of their low survivablity compared to their opponents. They've focused on playing cruisers which means you repeatedly see numbers in matches where feds have half the dps and double the healing of Klingons. This also explains why Klingons rarely play raptors. They suffer from the same problems as Fed escorts.

Because of the changes to RSP and their generally poor turning radius Fed cruisers don't match up well against BoPs now even with all their defensive possibilities. A well played BoP/escort can often take a cruiser apart because with their manueverability they can focus their offensive power on one shield zone and stay behind their target. I've seen well specced BoPs/Fed escorts do 40k+ damage in 3 seconds repeatedly. However if the cruisers survives and its beams start to wear down a BoP they battlecloak and then return to alpha strike. The Fed escort or klingon raptor can't do that. It's easier to mitigate their damage because they can't disappear on you. They can't restart the battle over and over on their terms.

2. The carrier BoP pets. Good damage, tough, can cloak, and make it nearly impossible for a Fed to flee. Really it's the balance of defense vs damage. The damage output is fine, but not if they are that tough.

3. BoPs + Carrier. The problem here is you've given the side with the best offensive/defensive escort the toughest support ship.

Solutions?

I love the Klingon faction. I like that they have some unique things like the BoP and the carrier. Frankly Klingons need more luv from developers (especially in PvE) and not some nerf.

However some attention needs to be given to the Fed escorts and sci ships. Fed sci ships need a unique and powerful role in pvp like the Klingon carrier. I would suggest some improvement to it's support ability. Perhaps some sort of reverse alpha strike like a bonus to healing friendly ships? Fed escorts and Raptors need some way to bring their survivability up to that of the BoP. A possible solution is to replace their lieutenant commander bridge tactical station with a universal one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-29-2010, 08:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelus
However some attention needs to be given to the Fed escorts and sci ships. Fed sci ships need a unique and powerful role in pvp like the Klingon carrier. I would suggest some improvement to it's support ability. Perhaps some sort of reverse alpha strike like a bonus to healing friendly ships? Fed escorts and Raptors need some way to bring their survivability up to that of the BoP. A possible solution is to replace their lieutenant commander bridge tactical station with a universal one.
SV + escort is a very powerful duo in the hands of experienced players. Nothing like a SV toying with an unsuspecting ship by CPB / PSW / Tach Beam / Tractor then his escort teammate just obliterating their helpless prey.

If you need a demonstration, several good SV pilots like Andrew Cullen, Gildred, T'lol (keg) and their escort pals would happily oblige.

In my opinion, having started out as a fed and pvp'ing against Klingons (both pug and premade teams) and now a BoP / eng captain, most Feds are getting better these days. However...

Here's a few of my observations as to why there's a "feds are inferior!" complex:
1. A good number of Feds are mainly PvE only, and just want the emblems for the PvP daily. Generally carries with them a Defeatist attitude and wishes the FvF popped first
2. With Klingons, I see the same general group of pvp enthusiasts every day, and they all play their best. Feds... some play and do everything in their power to win. Some... don't
3. Feds have a much bigger population, so getting a pug group is usually a crapshoot. I usually pug a few games on either side, and I can honestly say that pug'ing klingon side will usually get me in group with people I already know
4. AFK'ers, I usually see some every PuG game as my Fed, but the Klingon population's small enough at end game that those who practice it are remembered and ostracized
5. Lack of teamwork on Fed side. I usually get an invite to a group on my BoP, and even if I didn't I will gladly toss my HE2 and eng/sci team to someone under fire. Feds are getting better at this but I still see cruisers just shooting at someone and not healing / buffing that poor escort teammate that clearly needs help. Moreover, I find Klingons in general focus fire on a hapless (tractored, floating in warp plasma, etc.) target while Feds in general... don't
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-29-2010, 08:50 AM
>>>With Klingons, I see the same general group of pvp enthusiasts every day, and they all play their best. Feds... some play and do everything in their power to win. Some... don't

Mainly that. Feds have too many "I'm just here for the emblems" players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-29-2010, 09:10 AM
Skill, teamwork, and/or interest is obviously a crucial factor in determining success and yes Feds tend to exhibit less in general.

I still see problems beyond it simply being the players however.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-29-2010, 09:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelus
Skill, teamwork, and/or interest is obviously a crucial factor in determining success and yes Feds tend to exhibit less in general.

I still see problems beyond it simply being the players however.
So, considering the Fed ships allready are superior, what dó you propose?

Should we make the Fed ships even more powerful?

How dó you propose we deal with the top 5 % of the Fed players, that allready today steamroll any Klingon team?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-29-2010, 09:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelus
However if the cruisers survives and its beams start to wear down a BoP they battlecloak and then return to alpha strike. The Fed escort or klingon raptor can't do that. It's easier to mitigate their damage because they can't disappear on you. They can't restart the battle over and over on their terms.
And this is when the cruiser should be mixing up BO's. Adapt or die, I think that's fair.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-29-2010, 09:30 AM
The OOC random pvp teamup, yo click on a different pvp option wherein no points or emblems are given, and mixed faction teams are done randomly I dunno.. just pulling stuff out of my ass
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-29-2010, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
So, considering the Fed ships allready are superior, what dó you propose?

Should we make the Fed ships even more powerful?

How dó you propose we deal with the top 5 % of the Fed players, that allready today steamroll any Klingon team?
Were are you getting this the top 5% from ????? I play both sides and there is a problem like the op said. KDF ships ( BOP) are made for pvp plain and simple and are superior than feds in pvp. Please dont come back with ohh shields and hull crap because I can come back with turn, canons, battle cloak, more crew and so on.
What i don't want to see which will happen is no FVK pvp and there will only be FVF pvp or KVK and ma by that's what you all want I don't. I am not saying give the feds a i win button but maby what the op sugested.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-29-2010, 09:51 AM
The BoP fills the role of a light fast attack vessel perfectly in STO but they are not equal to escorts by any means. They are too squishy even for thier versatility and speed which makes them well balanced against the other vessels in STO. This is something I feel to be true due to the way you can wear down a BoP, when it can not escape attack, much faster than an escort of comparible skill.
If the BoP was such an unbalancing vessel in pvp then we would see BoP teams raping pvp on a regualr basis and yet that doesn't happen unless such team is a premade and then only against pugs.

Frankly I find the whole attack against the BoP's role ingame and its suppossed "OP" nature to be nothing but a steaming pile of feces. I have never seen any example of OPness when playing pvp, have never seen its super-survivabilty, super-dammage or any aspect of the BoP that increases a players ability to pvp better.
If I kill anyone in a pvp match with my BoP, I had to work at it, time my attack for maxium effect, know what defenses to use, have an escape plan ready just in case and keep moving to stay alive long enough to pull it off. Playing a BoP is more of a balancing act than any other vessel in my opinion, because in order to do high dammage I must sacrifice defense, more defense for higher damage, more CC and Holds for loss of both heals and dammage. The BoP is not OP, the person flying it is the only factor in its success.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-29-2010, 10:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
The BoP fills the role of a light fast attack vessel perfectly in STO but they are not equal to escorts by any means. They are too squishy even for thier versatility and speed which makes them well balanced against the other vessels in STO. This is something I feel to be true due to the way you can wear down a BoP, when it can not escape attack, much faster than an escort of comparible skill.
If the BoP was such an unbalancing vessel in pvp then we would see BoP teams raping pvp on a regualr basis and yet that doesn't happen unless such team is a premade and then only against pugs.
I am not trying to compare ships here they are all differant i am not saying the bop is more powerful than the escort not going there, what I am saying is KDF ships are geared better for PVP than fed ships. Thats all KDF ships for the most part not just the bop.
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