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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
10-29-2010, 10:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
I am not trying to compare ships here they are all differant i am not saying the bop is more powerful than the escort not going there, what I am saying is KDF ships are geared better for PVP than fed ships.
That is most likely true, being both a warrior based faction and a pvp-centric one as well, leads to designs being towards the goals of combat effectiveness over exploration,scientific research and then defense.
I'm still amazed that one squishy little light fighter has caused such an uproar.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
10-29-2010, 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
That is most likely true, being both a warrior based faction and a pvp-centric one as well, leads to designs being towards the goals of combat effectiveness over exploration,scientific research and then defense.
I'm still amazed that one squishy little light fighter has caused such an uproar.
I just want to see a better pvp for all a better FVK pvp . I can sit for hours waiting on a FVK match to start were as a FVF starts in minutes . I want FVK to start in minutes. Lets not talk about how long a KVK takes to start
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
10-29-2010, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
I just want to see a better pvp for all a better FVK pvp . I can sit for hours waiting on a FVK match to start were as a FVF starts in minutes . I want FVK to start in minutes.
FvK doesn't pop often becuase of the stigmata that the KDF is OP, that the BoP is OP and the fact that not many KDF players exist to do pvp in the numbers that they used to. Two months ago I never had to wait more than a few minutes at most for a match to start, now it can take up to ten minutes because thier are no feds to play or no Klingons queing up becuase its quicker to get your points in exploration (pvp pays **** for SP).
I aslo find it funny that a great deal of KDF players that I know think that the vessels of the federation are more OP, yet it is only rarely brought up in the forums due to the point that it is more perception than fact. Think we are all wrong and need to understand the different idealogies of the factions and how that effected thier designs of the vessel they use.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
10-29-2010, 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
The BoP fills the role of a light fast attack vessel perfectly in STO but they are not equal to escorts by any means. They are too squishy even for thier versatility and speed which makes them well balanced against the other vessels in STO. This is something I feel to be true due to the way you can wear down a BoP, when it can not escape attack, much faster than an escort of comparible skill.
If the BoP was such an unbalancing vessel in pvp then we would see BoP teams raping pvp on a regualr basis and yet that doesn't happen unless such team is a premade and then only against pugs.

Frankly I find the whole attack against the BoP's role ingame and its suppossed "OP" nature to be nothing but a steaming pile of feces. I have never seen any example of OPness when playing pvp, have never seen its super-survivabilty, super-dammage or any aspect of the BoP that increases a players ability to pvp better.
If I kill anyone in a pvp match with my BoP, I had to work at it, time my attack for maxium effect, know what defenses to use, have an escape plan ready just in case and keep moving to stay alive long enough to pull it off. Playing a BoP is more of a balancing act than any other vessel in my opinion, because in order to do high dammage I must sacrifice defense, more defense for higher damage, more CC and Holds for loss of both heals and dammage. The BoP is not OP, the person flying it is the only factor in its success.
I think a lot of this actually comes from the past and is not representive of the current Bop abilities and from what people feel the sould be possible for ship types.

If two or three players are fighting a cruiser and it tanks them that is ok because that is in keeping with what they expect and all but goes unnoticed, if two players fight a bop and it tanks them they notice this and consider it unfair because the bop is a small ship. Once good players could stay uncloaked and in almost continual combat for an entire round on any map in a bop and tank/kill groups of less experienced, less well equipped players. today not so much but the myth that the bop is the ultimate in pvp ship capability remains (not that it ever really was) and posters are still complaining because one or two survived even tho they might have killed 20 others in the same fight which are convieniently forgotten
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
10-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
Were are you getting this the top 5% from ????? I play both sides and there is a problem like the op said. KDF ships ( BOP) are made for pvp plain and simple and are superior than feds in pvp. Please dont come back with ohh shields and hull crap because I can come back with turn, canons, battle cloak, more crew and so on.
What i don't want to see which will happen is no FVK pvp and there will only be FVF pvp or KVK and ma by that's what you all want I don't. I am not saying give the feds a i win button but maby what the op sugested.
Heres the deal.. I mainly play Fed (exclusively for like 4 months..)

Since the Vor'cha Refit was added, Ive been playing that toon-

Only counting the games where the Feds I played against was good (seriously, you cant give an comparison objectively, if you pit players that have <100 PvP matches against players with 5000+), Ive noticed the following:

I win fewer games as KDF (played all the way from LtC1 to BG6 now)
The ones I win, are closer to eachother in scores.
My damage and healing scores are lower in the KDF cruiser than my Starcruiser or Assaultcruiser.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
10-29-2010, 10:36 AM
Few things I will say here:

1. Because a ship is more powerful does not necessarily mean it is easier to play. It can be the opposite.

2. Fed ships aren't better than the Klingon ships in the endgame. When a BOP or an escort can burn down an enemy ship with 8k shields and 40k+ hull strength in 5 seconds the few extra points in shields and hull that Feds get aren't significant.

3. The switching BO suggestion to deal with unique threats doesn't affect balance between factions because both sides can use this tactic equally.

Again I am not advocating any changes to BoPs. I personally think Escorts/Raptors need some small boost to defense.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
10-29-2010, 10:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
FvK doesn't pop often becuase of the stigmata that the KDF is OP, that the BoP is OP and the fact that not many KDF players exist to do pvp in the numbers that they used to. Two months ago I never had to wait more than a few minutes at most for a match to start, now it can take up to ten minutes because thier are no feds to play or no Klingons queing up becuase its quicker to get your points in exploration (pvp pays **** for SP).
I aslo find it funny that a great deal of KDF players that I know think that the vessels of the federation are more OP, yet it is only rarely brought up in the forums due to the point that it is more perception than fact. Think we are all wrong and need to understand the different idealogies of the factions and how that effected thier designs of the vessel they use.
Its not that the fed ships are op its that they are different than the kdf, like you said they are more into the sci, explore were as the kdf are more into battle so you get on fed side more of a tank and kdf more of a damage build . A good eng fed player can tank till the cows come home and that's were i can see were the feds are op come from but thouse are few and far between. I have also been in matches were there are 2 carriers and the rest bops were the feds didnt last 2 seconds and that were i can see were the kdf is op is comming from. What i want to see is more casual pvp on both sides and to get that you are going have to bring the ships on par with each other. thats the way ull see the ques fill up on the KVF pvp matches. If not it will only get worse.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
10-29-2010, 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Heres the deal.. I mainly play Fed (exclusively for like 4 months..)

Since the Vor'cha Refit was added, Ive been playing that toon-

Only counting the games where the Feds I played against was good (seriously, you cant give an comparison objectively, if you pit players that have <100 PvP matches against players with 5000+), Ive noticed the following:

I win fewer games as KDF (played all the way from LtC1 to BG6 now)
The ones I win, are closer to eachother in scores.
My damage and healing scores are lower in the KDF cruiser than my Starcruiser or Assaultcruiser.
My point is this if that was true for all not saying it isnt for you, then why arnt the KvF ques full or as full as the FvF ques.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
10-29-2010, 10:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Heres the deal.. I mainly play Fed (exclusively for like 4 months..)
My damage and healing scores are lower in the KDF cruiser than my Starcruiser or Assaultcruiser.
You are doing something different then. Both the Fed and KDF cruisers have access to the exact same consoles, skills, and weapons. You should be doing higher damage in your KDF cruiser if anything. I know I do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
10-29-2010, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Obelus
Few things I will say here:

1. Because a ship is more powerful does not necessarily mean it is easier to play. It can be the opposite.

2. Fed ships aren't better than the Klingon ships in the endgame. When a BOP or an escort can burn down an enemy ship with 8k shields and 40k+ hull strength in 5 seconds the few extra points in shields and hull that Feds get aren't significant.

3. The switching BO suggestion to deal with unique threats doesn't affect balance between factions because both sides can use this tactic equally.

Again I am not advocating any changes to BoPs. I personally think Escorts/Raptors need some small boost to defense.
I agree with ya, I am not calling for a nerf on kdf ships at all some still need work.
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