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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21 flame war
10-29-2010, 11:20 AM
Quote:
What i don't want to see which will happen is no FVK pvp and there will only be FVF pvp or KVK and maybe that's what you all want I don't. I am not saying give the feds a i win button but maybe what the op suggested.
full agreement with Matunus and OP.

Instead of thinking about how to improve FvK pvp for both sides, let me just quickly summarize previous responses and more to come:

Noob l2p!, I have leveled a KDF toon, stupid Fed balls with cruises, Cryptic give my faction lovin, teamwork, i don't like my wing animation.

*yadda-yadda*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
10-29-2010, 11:40 AM
Please tell me this topic is a joke.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
10-29-2010, 11:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
The BoP fills the role of a light fast attack vessel perfectly in STO but they are not equal to escorts by any means. They are too squishy even for thier versatility and speed which makes them well balanced against the other vessels in STO. This is something I feel to be true due to the way you can wear down a BoP, when it can not escape attack, much faster than an escort of comparible skill.
If the BoP was such an unbalancing vessel in pvp then we would see BoP teams raping pvp on a regualr basis and yet that doesn't happen unless such team is a premade and then only against pugs.

Frankly I find the whole attack against the BoP's role ingame and its suppossed "OP" nature to be nothing but a steaming pile of feces. I have never seen any example of OPness when playing pvp, have never seen its super-survivabilty, super-dammage or any aspect of the BoP that increases a players ability to pvp better.
If I kill anyone in a pvp match with my BoP, I had to work at it, time my attack for maxium effect, know what defenses to use, have an escape plan ready just in case and keep moving to stay alive long enough to pull it off. Playing a BoP is more of a balancing act than any other vessel in my opinion, because in order to do high dammage I must sacrifice defense, more defense for higher damage, more CC and Holds for loss of both heals and dammage. The BoP is not OP, the person flying it is the only factor in its success.




THIS......


Nuf said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
10-29-2010, 11:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
Its not that the fed ships are op its that they are different than the kdf, like you said they are more into the sci, explore were as the kdf are more into battle so you get on fed side more of a tank and kdf more of a damage build . A good eng fed player can tank till the cows come home and that's were i can see were the feds are op come from but thouse are few and far between. I have also been in matches were there are 2 carriers and the rest bops were the feds didnt last 2 seconds and that were i can see were the kdf is op is comming from. What i want to see is more casual pvp on both sides and to get that you are going have to bring the ships on par with each other. thats the way ull see the ques fill up on the KVF pvp matches. If not it will only get worse.
Casual pvp is a pipedream and doesn't exist becuase those who really enjoy pvp will build to maximize thier effectivness and the casual player will not, thus leaving the casual player at a disadvantage that can't be balanced out.
I may be the exception as I'm a mediocre level player player who enjoys pvp for the fun of it and has no ego to get bruised if I lose to a superior build. It took me a while of asking questions and searching the forums to learn what little tricks I now know. PvP is not casual in any game or even suited for it and requires more than casual participation to enjoy.
Oddly enough the closes RL example I can think of is paintball, in that there is a difference in the professional player over the walk-on player and how they play the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matunus
My point is this if that was true for all not saying it isnt for you, then why arnt the KvF ques full or as full as the FvF ques.
Most Klingons wish to kill feds for the thrill of it and that not being a possibility will do inner-fleet pvp challenges rather than KvK. If KvK actually had a house ranking that could be used in the KDF, or gave points towards one's houses standing - then possibliy more would play.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
10-29-2010, 11:51 AM
BoPs are fine, and have been for quite a while. They can be very tanky, very high damage, or great controllers, but not all at once.

Personally I don't buy any complaints about the BoP being fragile, because I tank well with mine, but then again my BO arrangement is focussed on survival. My damage is okay, not really sure if it's overall better or worse than a cruiser. On my fed cruisers I use a lot of arrays, so I can focus on maneuvering to stay alive while still putting out good damage in every direction. On my "tank" BoP my alpha-strike is a lot more powerful, but once I start zig-zagging to avoid fire or set up attack runs I lose a lot of DPS.

The only way I see BoPs being overpowered currently is that they are really hard to spot in a cloud of NPCs. the BoP is a well-balanced ship when it needs to maneuver to survive, but when it can just cruise along at 1/4 impulse and keep it's guns on target constantly without anyone picking it out of the clutter, it's insanely OP.

Carriers do make Klingons easy-mode right now. They can be countered effectively in premades, but two or more carriers will defeat PUGs with ease. The multiple-carrier teams seem a little less common now that they aren't the new shiny, but there still really isn't a way to deal with them. 15-0 blowouts are still the most common result, even with a lot of players trying out builds specifically tailored to fighting carriers. I'm pretty much done with attempting to adapt; there's just no point to it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
10-29-2010, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by inktomi19d View Post
BoPs are fine, and have been for quite a while. They can be very tanky, very high damage, or great controllers, but not all at once.

Personally I don't buy any complaints about the BoP being fragile, because I tank well with mine, but then again my BO arrangement is focussed on survival. My damage is okay, not really sure if it's overall better or worse than a cruiser. On my fed cruisers I use a lot of arrays, so I can focus on maneuvering to stay alive while still putting out good damage in every direction. On my "tank" BoP my alpha-strike is a lot more powerful, but once I start zig-zagging to avoid fire or set up attack runs I lose a lot of DPS.

The only way I see BoPs being overpowered currently is that they are really hard to spot in a cloud of NPCs. the BoP is a well-balanced ship when it needs to maneuver to survive, but when it can just cruise along at 1/4 impulse and keep it's guns on target constantly without anyone picking it out of the clutter, it's insanely OP.

Carriers do make Klingons easy-mode right now. They can be countered effectively in premades, but two or more carriers will defeat PUGs with ease. The multiple-carrier teams seem a little less common now that they aren't the new shiny, but there still really isn't a way to deal with them. 15-0 blowouts are still the most common result, even with a lot of players trying out builds specifically tailored to fighting carriers. I'm pretty much done with attempting to adapt; there's just no point to it.
This is why I have suggested (elsewhere) that the targeting needs tweaking so one can set a difference between players and NPC's in pvp, besides the ineffective one that exist now under the options menu.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
10-29-2010, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
This is why I have suggested (elsewhere) that the targeting needs tweaking so one can set a difference between players and NPC's in pvp, besides the ineffective one that exist now under the options menu.
That could be a big help. I've also seen suggestions about making PCs visually distinct from NPCs, which might help a bit. While it's easy enough to see a carrier in a cloud of NPCs, BoPs are a pain to pick out. PCs and NPCs ought to have different colored targeting boxes or something, it needs to be obvious which ships in the cloud are going to be most dangerous.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
10-29-2010, 02:24 PM
Someone has been drinking the Federation Kool-Aid.

BoP's aren't more powerful than Escorts, just more versatile. Carriers may be an issue, albeit more manageable if targeting could be improved. I'm also a bit concerned that the fighters aren't effected by cloaking. So many times they've chased me across the zone, even after dropping red alert and being cloaked, and then they hit me on their suicide run. I would like some kind of clarification on NPC cloak detection.

At any rate, why is it always that the ship and mechanics are broken but that the player has no effect?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
10-29-2010, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Someone has been drinking the Federation Kool-Aid.

BoP's aren't more powerful than Escorts, just more versatile. Carriers may be an issue, albeit more manageable if targeting could be improved. I'm also a bit concerned that the fighters aren't effected by cloaking. So many times they've chased me across the zone, even after dropping red alert and being cloaked, and then they hit me on their suicide run. I would like some kind of clarification on NPC cloak detection.

At any rate, why is it always that the ship and mechanics are broken but that the player has no effect?
Stevehale is op nerf him.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
10-29-2010, 02:44 PM
Quote:
At any rate, why is it always that the ship and mechanics are broken but that the player has no effect?
I know I'm awesome...so the game must be broken.
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