Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Dialogue/Decision Trees
10-31-2010, 12:58 PM
How elaborate can you make dialogue and decision trees with the UGC engine?

I ask because this is probably the biggest thing I find lacking in Cryptic's missions so far. There are failure conditions. And in one mission there are different failure conditions depending on your faction. There are not, however, by and large, complex dialogue and decision trees where based on a dialogue choice or a command choice a mission can play out in two or three or four different ways.

Does the current UGC engine, at this beta state, support creating, for example, battle scenarios that will happen if option x is picked, or diplomatic content if option y is picked? Can you make a truly complex labyrinthine episode or set of episodes that can be played a dozen times because based on your choices, the story will evolve differently each time?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-31-2010, 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
How elaborate can you make dialogue and decision trees with the UGC engine?

I ask because this is probably the biggest thing I find lacking in Cryptic's missions so far. There are failure conditions. And in one mission there are different failure conditions depending on your faction. There are not, however, by and large, complex dialogue and decision trees where based on a dialogue choice or a command choice a mission can play out in two or three or four different ways.

Does the current UGC engine, at this beta state, support creating, for example, battle scenarios that will happen if option x is picked, or diplomatic content if option y is picked? Can you make a truly complex labyrinthine episode or set of episodes that can be played a dozen times because based on your choices, the story will evolve differently each time?
Good question.
It'd have to come eventually, if not at release.

It does pose a problem, however... for a mission to be sufficiently checked off as being acceptable per the approval rules, the reviewer would have to play through every possible dialogue tree. I'm almost wondering if reviewers will have to have an editor-like view of the mission where they can see all the dialogue text outside playing the mission normally.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-31-2010, 02:24 PM
I would think so...look at the "Rescue Defari" daily...a diplomatic option (2, in fact: pay up or use the deflector pulse), or a combat option
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-31-2010, 03:02 PM
Strictly in terms of feature set, the Foundry tools are being built following the original progress of the game. The first iteration of the tools is designed to be able to generate missions at roughly the level of the content when STO shipped, and we will elaborate from there. Eventually there will be enough options where, given enough time and planning, a mission can take you down any number of possible scenarios in response to player actions.

While I can't say when all this will happen, I would not expect to be able to replicate the coolest missions from the game using the Foundry when it first launches. We hope to launch with something stable and simple for storytelling and to get people thinking about what kinds of features they'd really like to see, and add branching missions and dialogue in future updates.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-31-2010, 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TauNeutrino
Strictly in terms of feature set, the Foundry tools are being built following the original progress of the game. The first iteration of the tools is designed to be able to generate missions at roughly the level of the content when STO shipped, and we will elaborate from there. Eventually there will be enough options where, given enough time and planning, a mission can take you down any number of possible scenarios in response to player actions.

While I can't say when all this will happen, I would not expect to be able to replicate the coolest missions from the game using the Foundry when it first launches. We hope to launch with something stable and simple for storytelling and to get people thinking about what kinds of features they'd really like to see, and add branching missions and dialogue in future updates.
I'd highly, highly, HIGHLY suggest we be given the capacity to filter out missions made with older versions of the UGC tools. People who have a story they want told will likely make the same story over and over as new versions are released, incorporating the latest and greatest capabilities. This will lead to heavy story duplication.

If we can filter out missions made with older versions it'll help us find the most recent.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Here's something you might want to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TauNeutrino
You can continue to edit your mission after it has been published, and publish again later. While the old version won't be forcibly dropped from players already in progress, any new players taking the mission will get your new version.

I don't know if we have a definite policy in place yet to determine what happens to existing ratings, and the mission might have to be vetted again to make sure no inappropriate content has been added.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-31-2010, 05:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikaelus View Post
I'd highly, highly, HIGHLY suggest we be given the capacity to filter out missions made with older versions of the UGC tools. People who have a story they want told will likely make the same story over and over as new versions are released, incorporating the latest and greatest capabilities. This will lead to heavy story duplication.

If we can filter out missions made with older versions it'll help us find the most recent.
Why? If people want to change an existing mission with the updated tools; they are more than fee to do so and republuish. Not EVERY good story needs the latest bells and whistles per say. Also, just because a mission is newer will have zero baring on whether it's good or bad.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-31-2010, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
Why? If people want to change an existing mission with the updated tools; they are more than fee to do so and republuish. Not EVERY good story needs the latest bells and whistles per say. Also, just because a mission is newer will have zero baring on whether it's good or bad.
You assume I realized you could update already-published missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-01-2010, 11:26 AM
Well, there is a possible work around until branching missions are set.

If you can't get multiple lines from one NPC, you might simulate that by using
more than 1 NPC

example

Start story - your in map 1, the situation is disclosed.
3 different NPCs have thier own way of completing the mission
when you choose one, they send you to a DIFFERENT part of map 2 that allows you
to advance the story in the choosen way

If map 2 is space, make it as big as you can, the NW corner pops up the enemy
you have to kill to advance...the enemy in the NE never get met
and the enemy in the SE also never get met.

if you choose a differnt option, you end up in the NE, if you diplo them,
they have you follow them to the NW corner and help you kill the traitors. mission advances

if you decide to trick them, you go to SE corner..you trick them into going to the NW corner
to kill the enemy for you

in all 3 instances, the mob in NW dies to advance the story.

Yes, it would be easier if the engine allow a more straight forward way, but still is possible
to do it with a work around

Big maps, different starting points..or different instructions that send you to different
places on the map as long as all solutions trigger the same one thing needed to advance the story.

As a side note, I hope we can edit and update published missions as new tech
come down the pipe so that older missions can be updated.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-02-2010, 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TauNeutrino
The first iteration of the tools is designed to be able to generate missions at roughly the level of the content when STO shipped, and we will elaborate from there.
Hmm. Well, even at launch there were missions with looping dialogue in them such as the Labor Day mission where you had to successfully complete a quiz to advance the mission. Which means that their were some basic checks in-game then to direct conversation dialogue based on the choices you answered with.

Curious to see just how much that differs from the code to branch missions since if you can loop dialogue it shouldn't be that much of a step from 'answer wrong, go to start' to 'answer a, go to a1 or answer b, go to b1'.

Still I have to guess it'll be a wait and see kind of thing as to what the tools allow.
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