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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-04-2010, 02:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Englebert
Yes, it is a design flaw. They designed a solo friendly game that casual players can play alone and solo to the level cap and doesn't force grouping. Then the only end game content is for five players who play together all the time.
STF's are the only end game content? We have the weekly series, B'tran, PvP, fleet actions. All of those dont require 'forced grouping'.

This isnt a design flaw in the game because there's other content you can do. No-one's forcing you to do STFs. The only incentives at the moment are bragging rights and being able to get slightly better gear, which is not required unless you're doing these kinds of missions in the first place.

It is not a design flaw that you have to do abit of research and preparation. There's nothing wrong with that. There are two types of people who would not want to do the work. One is the type who just want to have some casual fun. Obviously, they will not even bother looking at STFs and thats fine. The other type is the kind that wants to do an 'epic' quest and get instant gratification from it.

I can understand why the first type of people may feel slighted, especially when 90% of the rest of the game is frankly too easy and soloable. But this is an MMO, and no matter how casual and solo-friendly an MMO it is, the reality is that there will always be some things you cant do without a group. Live with it.

As for the second type of people, i dont really have to say alot about them.

Put it this way, if STFs were as solo friendly as the rest of the game, at the same level of difficulty, then what are STFs other than 3 to 4 more episodes that happen to be repeatable? In-case people have forgotten, its called Special Task Forces. Its not run-of-the-mill missions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-04-2010, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
Then I would submit that the design flaw is in not having earlier content that requires grouping. And if you want end game content for solo players, there's Defari dailies, and B'Tran. I don't see why STO can't have both. Is it not enough that the vast majority of the game is single player?
It's a design flaw because none of the game play prepares players for the very small amount of end game they have. It doesn't require grouping of the same five people to get through the game but it's required for the only real end game PVE content.

If there were STF's at every tier that required grouping of the same five people. It wouldn't be a design flaw but theres not this content available at lower levels. So at the very end forces players to do what they haven't had to do or had the chance to do.

I am all for having STF's the way they were designed was flawed. They should have been designed that random groups could have completed them like all the other content. With an elite setting for fleets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-04-2010, 02:31 PM
It may just be me, but I don't consider the STF's to be the only bit of End Game content available. I very much enjoy doing the weekly series (Which could be considered end game content since it scales to your level), the B'Tran cluster missions, the Deferi daily missions, and PvP. Granted with the UGC coming out I think we'll have plenty of stuff to keep us busy. The STF's to me are just a challenging way to get some nice gear, however not everything that comes from the STF's is uber awesome. It just has a bonus to killing Borg if anything. I'd much rather do a bunch of daily missions to get some good emblem gear to throw on myself and my ship.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-04-2010, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
STF's are the only end game content? We have the weekly series, B'tran, PvP, fleet actions. All of those dont require 'forced grouping'.

This isnt a design flaw in the game because there's other content you can do. No-one's forcing you to do STFs. The only incentives at the moment are bragging rights and being able to get slightly better gear, which is not required unless you're doing these kinds of missions in the first place.

It is not a design flaw that you have to do abit of research and preparation. There's nothing wrong with that. There are two types of people who would not want to do the work. One is the type who just want to have some casual fun. Obviously, they will not even bother looking at STFs and thats fine. The other type is the kind that wants to do an 'epic' quest and get instant gratification from it.

I can understand why the first type of people may feel slighted, especially when 90% of the rest of the game is frankly too easy and soloable. But this is an MMO, and no matter how casual and solo-friendly an MMO it is, the reality is that there will always be some things you cant do without a group. Live with it.

As for the second type of people, i dont really have to say alot about them.

Put it this way, if STFs were as solo friendly as the rest of the game, at the same level of difficulty, then what are STFs other than 3 to 4 more episodes that happen to be repeatable? In-case people have forgotten, its called Special Task Forces. Its not run-of-the-mill missions.
Please get off the soapbox. You can't classify people like that. I have tried Cure at least a dozen times. I haev failed on the second set of forcefield nodes each and every time. I have had at length discussions and searched the forums for solutions (although I am loathe to cheat) and frankly any mission where I have to do "research" on the forums is flawed, I agree to be challenged, I like to be challenged; however, I don't like spending endless hours for nothing. I have done my research. So much for the whole if you do your reserach you will be fine theory.

People are frustrated. Many more people than the few who can claim completion. That's a problem. If the small percentage who have completed can't see that then I have nothing else to say to them. With the fact that STFs are getting an overhaul with some really interesting loot I sincerely hope they change the STFs just a little bit. If not, the flames of retribution will be called down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-04-2010, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DLRevan View Post
STF's are the only end game content? We have the weekly series, B'tran, PvP, fleet actions. All of those dont require 'forced grouping'.

This isnt a design flaw in the game because there's other content you can do. No-one's forcing you to do STFs. The only incentives at the moment are bragging rights and being able to get slightly better gear, which is not required unless you're doing these kinds of missions in the first place.

It is not a design flaw that you have to do abit of research and preparation. There's nothing wrong with that. There are two types of people who would not want to do the work. One is the type who just want to have some casual fun. Obviously, they will not even bother looking at STFs and thats fine. The other type is the kind that wants to do an 'epic' quest and get instant gratification from it.

I can understand why the first type of people may feel slighted, especially when 90% of the rest of the game is frankly too easy and soloable. But this is an MMO, and no matter how casual and solo-friendly an MMO it is, the reality is that there will always be some things you cant do without a group. Live with it.

As for the second type of people, i dont really have to say alot about them.

Put it this way, if STFs were as solo friendly as the rest of the game, at the same level of difficulty, then what are STFs other than 3 to 4 more episodes that happen to be repeatable? In-case people have forgotten, its called Special Task Forces. Its not run-of-the-mill missions.
We didn't have weeklies when the game launched we only had PVP and explorer missions. The end game fleet actions were added till after launch. The fleet actions were for lower tiers and there wasn't level banding.

I am more than able to do the STF's I have never chose to waste all that time trying to find four other players who could.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-04-2010, 02:36 PM
Solo friendly versions of the STFs are a good thing. They allow players who want the story, but not the drama of teaming to experience this corner of STO.

I still however feel like if they are going to give us something to reach for like the new loot sets then that should be the teaming version only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-04-2010, 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
I have done my research. So much for the whole if you do your reserach you will be fine theory.
It's not so much that you do the research, but your whole team needs to do research and know what's going on. You could be the best player on a basketball team, but unless you work as a team, your going to get beat. Same thing applies here. Granted I'll agree, they are pretty difficult, but for me the satisfaction of actually completing it is a reward in itself, because it's so hard. I'll also agree that the game doesn't force people to group, but they don't exactly take away the option either... you remember those missions when you were leveling, and you were just dropped into a group with people? I'd like to have that on all the missions, and perhaps that would help the STF issue as well, but who knows.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-04-2010, 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
I will actually respond to this. I have finishd Infected twice. I have tried and failed the cure more times than I care to count. I am in a fleet. I like the people in my fleet. However, I play mostly during the weekdsay during the day hours. I run mostly PUGs because I have no other choice. I have also treid Terradome twice both times without success. All my times in the The Cure we had good comuunication and decent tactics.

For anyone who wants to tell me my opinion doens't matter. Tough, it does. I pay to play this game and I pay for my son to play it. I like to be able to claim to have completed every mission in the game. Currnelty I can't. I can't even find a group willing to try the Cure these days. Yeah these aren't designed wrong... they are designed completely wrong.
I was not referring to you in my post, but rather to Naju who said he/she had even bothered to try any of them, and yet was giving his/her opinion.

And my point about joining a fleet is so that you find other people that you know who can run them with you. If you are in a fleet, but still have to PUG it, then you are basically still PUGging it. (I know that sounds redundant, but you get my meaning). If you want to run the Cure, I may be able to help you through it. My usual online time is late evenings PST. Feel free to send me a /tell. (You'll need to be able to use vent though)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-04-2010, 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
Solo friendly versions of the STFs are a good thing. They allow players who want the story, but not the drama of teaming to experience this corner of STO.
A person that doesn't want to experience the "drama of teaming" as you put it should be playing a single-player game, not an MMO.

Some people don't like PvP. Does this mean that STO shouldn't have PvP?
Some people don't like crafting. Does this mean that STO shouldn't have crafting?
Some people don't like diplomatic missions. Does this mean that STO shouldn't have diplomatic missions?

STFs are Raids. Some players like Raids so STO has raids. That's the nice thing about an MMO. It offers a lot of different things to a lot of different people. If the STFs are too difficult for you then try joining a Fleet that does them on a regular basis. Pretty soon you'll be completing them successfully in no time.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-04-2010, 03:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore_Stipe
Please get off the soapbox. You can't classify people like that. I have tried Cure at least a dozen times. I haev failed on the second set of forcefield nodes each and every time. I have had at length discussions and searched the forums for solutions (although I am loathe to cheat) and frankly any mission where I have to do "research" on the forums is flawed, I agree to be challenged, I like to be challenged; however, I don't like spending endless hours for nothing. I have done my research. So much for the whole if you do your reserach you will be fine theory.

People are frustrated. Many more people than the few who can claim completion. That's a problem. If the small percentage who have completed can't see that then I have nothing else to say to them. With the fact that STFs are getting an overhaul with some really interesting loot I sincerely hope they change the STFs just a little bit. If not, the flames of retribution will be called down.
I never said anything like research and preparation would make everything magically work. I said its a requirement. But a fulfilling a requirement to win isnt the same as actually winning.

Just because more people claim they cant do it than those who can isnt wrong either. If more people claimed they can do what is supposedly elite hardcore raid content than those who cant, id be really shocked.

No one guaranteed that you would be able to finish STFs, even if you put hours into it. While ive completed KA, ive never finished terradome. I accept that. Either im not good enough to finish it, or i've not found the right team. Id like to add that ive never run with with anything but PUGs, excepting a few runs on infected with my fleet.

Again, no one forces you to play STFs. Who forced anyone to play elite hardcore content? And who, if they thought about it rationally, would complain about not being able to finish said content? Unless they consider themselves hardcore raiders.
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