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# 1 Swap Cheyenne for Akira
11-10-2010, 02:42 PM
Cryptic, please please please pleaaaaaase make the Akira a Cruiser and the Cheyenne an Escort.

Having the Akira as an escort is just plain wrong, its a large ship and as such should not be anywhere near as squishy as escorts are.
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# 2
11-10-2010, 02:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Having the Akira as an escort is just plain wrong
But the Cheyenne being an escort would be better?

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I don't think this is the solution.

I guess the problem is that there are too few Federation starship designs that would fit into this category. 90% of all canon Starfleet vessels are effectively cruisers (even the ones STO classifies as science vessels).
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# 3
11-10-2010, 03:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
But the Cheyenne being an escort would be better?

Don't get me wrong, I see your point, but I don't think this is the solution.

I guess the problem is that there are too few Federation starship designs that would fit into this category. 90% of all canon Starfleet vessels are effectively cruisers (even the ones STO classifies as science vessels).
The thing with the Cheyenne class is that what size it is and what it was designed for is a 100% unknown.
It only appeared in Best of Both worlds as abscure ship in the starship graveyard, being one of many kitbashes for that scene.
Theres no dialouge about it or even any background information about it.

The Akira on the other hand is a known large ship seen being flanked by a couple of defiant class ships in one engagement, and there is a plethora of background information on it.
A lot of it is contradictory, but it pretty much solidly places the Akira as either a carrier or a..... Heavy Cruiser.(which ironicly is exactly what the Cheyenne in the game is)
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# 4
11-10-2010, 03:31 PM
I was thinking about the Ship chart the other day, and in some respects, it doesn't make much sense to me.

If I could change it, this is what I'd likely do:

Swap the Defiant and the Akira - Based on size and power / weapon capability, the Akira should be more survivable and have more weapon slots than the Defiant.

Swap the Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser - The USS Constellation was a small, deep space asignment vessel. When compared to the USS Enterprise-A, the Constellation was smaller. Similarlly, the newer "Excalibur" and "Vesper" designs seem like they should be larger in size, and a more capable ship than the Constellation. Furthermore, putting the Connie Refit / Excalibur / Vesper in the same Tier as the Excelsior, would make much more sense. I would put the current Cruiser ships into Tier 3, and give their models a slight size boost, and the Tier 3 Cruiser stats, and take the current Heavy Cruisers, move them down to Tier 2 and give them Tier 2 Stats. I'd also shrink the Stargazer / Constellation / Cheyenne models.

Intrepid should be a Cruiser - based on her size and capabilities, the Intrepid should really be a cruiser, and shouldn't turn on a dime like the Nova class does.

Nebula should have 3 Variants - The whole idea behind the Nebula and it's mission pod, was the ship could fit multiple mission profiles, based on the pod that was equipped. It could be a Science vessel, or a Support vessel (Engineering) or it could carry extensive firepower. I would make 3 Nebulas and stat them accordingly, with an appropriate mission pod.
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# 5
11-10-2010, 03:34 PM
I will agree that the Akira in-game isn't given enough credit.

I entirely agree to a Akira/Defiant tier swap.

I don't agree with any other changes stated past that. I'm quite fine with the Cheyenne/Excelsior being in the same heavy cruiser category.
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# 6
11-10-2010, 03:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
The thing with the Cheyenne class is that what size it is and what it was designed for is a 100% unknown.
Well, the Galaxy-like saucer-section lets it look pretty big, added to that come the additional decks on the dorsal and ventral necks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
A lot of it is contradictory, but it pretty much solidly places the Akira as either a carrier or a..... Heavy Cruiser.(which ironicly is exactly what the Cheyenne in the game is)
Contradicting information is no information, though. The original designer's wet dreams about an overpowered fighter-carrying torpedo monster have been shot down pretty early by the studio, so this is anything but solid as well.

With a length of ~260 meters (according to the FX guys who put the ship into the movie), I'd say the Akira can well classify as a Light Cruiser instead of a Heavy one. At least that's how I've always seen her, too.

It's true, the Akira's position in the Escort category is anything but perfect, but it's still a lot better than swapping her with the Cheyenne.

If it were up to me, I'd put the Akira into the T4 Cruiser category, fill the T3 Escort slot with the T2 Saber, and make the T1 Centaur starter ship the new T2 Escort. T1 starter ship would then be Miranda only. But I don't see any of that happening, just as much as I doubt the devs would be willing to generally swap any ship in the game around this late after release. Just my thoughts on the matter, though.
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# 7
11-10-2010, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
I was thinking about the Ship chart the other day, and in some respects, it doesn't make much sense to me.

If I could change it, this is what I'd likely do:

Swap the Defiant and the Akira - Based on size and power / weapon capability, the Akira should be more survivable and have more weapon slots than the Defiant.

Swap the Cruiser and Heavy Cruiser - The USS Constellation was a small, deep space asignment vessel. When compared to the USS Enterprise-A, the Constellation was smaller. Similarlly, the newer "Excalibur" and "Vesper" designs seem like they should be larger in size, and a more capable ship than the Constellation. Furthermore, putting the Connie Refit / Excalibur / Vesper in the same Tier as the Excelsior, would make much more sense. I would put the current Cruiser ships into Tier 3, and give their models a slight size boost, and the Tier 3 Cruiser stats, and take the current Heavy Cruisers, move them down to Tier 2 and give them Tier 2 Stats. I'd also shrink the Stargazer / Constellation / Cheyenne models.

Intrepid should be a Cruiser - based on her size and capabilities, the Intrepid should really be a cruiser, and shouldn't turn on a dime like the Nova class does.

Nebula should have 3 Variants - The whole idea behind the Nebula and it's mission pod, was the ship could fit multiple mission profiles, based on the pod that was equipped. It could be a Science vessel, or a Support vessel (Engineering) or it could carry extensive firepower. I would make 3 Nebulas and stat them accordingly, with an appropriate mission pod.
Do you even know anything at all about Star Trek canon?
There is no Colstellation class in the game, and the current T3 Heavy Cruisers are fine as T3 ships.
And sizing up the Connie would just be plain wrong not to mention its an inferior ship to the Excelsior.

Intrepid a cruiser? Hardly!
The ship is half the size of a Galaxy class starship with only a crew of 150, and also clearly described as "quick and smart", so yes she should turn on a dime.
It belongs more in the Science category than it does in any other category.
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# 8
11-10-2010, 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
Do you even know anything at all about Star Trek canon?
There is no Colstellation class in the game, and the current T3 Heavy Cruisers are fine as T3 ships.
And sizing up the Connie would just be plain wrong not to mention its an inferior ship to the Excelsior.
There may not be a Constellation in the game, but the Stargazer class was designed as a descendant of the Constellation in it's design lineage. The Constellation was a smaller ship (much smaller) than the Constitution Class Refit.

It seems very odd to have a small, 4 nacelle deep space explorer, be larger graphically than a full cruiser (Constitution Class Refit) and more firepower as well. The size relation alone is way off.

As for the Constitution Class Refit being inferior, I can agree on that. But, also consider that the Excelsior's T3 stats reflect the advantage over the other T3 vessels. While the Excelsior may have been superior to the Connie Refit, she wasn't THAT much better.

Quote:
Intrepid a cruiser? Hardly!
The ship is half the size of a Galaxy class starship with only a crew of 150, and also clearly described as "quick and smart", so yes she should turn on a dime.
It belongs more in the Science category than it does in any other category.
The Intrepid was not designed with a specific science mission profile in mind. She was designed for deep space assignment. compared to actual known science vessels (Oberth, Nova, Olympic, Nebula w science pod) there is nothing about the Intrepid class that gears it specifically for scientific duty.

Furthermore, a "quick and smart" manuverability doesn't automatically mean the ship is a science vessel.

I would classify the Intrepid as a light cruiser. (Not STO Light Cruiser, but light cruiser in general, compared to the Galaxy or Sovereign, which would be Heavy Cruisers and the Excelsior, Nebula and Ambassador as a general cruiser.)

That's part of the problem. The majority of Starfleet ships ARE CRUISERS. There are very few ships that had specific roles assigned to them. But STO has to put them into categories for gameplay, sometimes in categories which make no sense at all.

Case in Point: The Sabre class. Why wasn't it classified as an Engineering ship in STO? It's the official ship of the Starfleet Corps of Engineers based on soft-canon:

Quote:
The Starfleet Corps of Engineers continued to maintain their own dedicated vessels through the 24th century, including older Oberth-class vessels such as the USS Trosper in the 2360s. By the 2370s, however, it was decided to give the SCE four newly-launched Sabre-class ships -- USS da Vinci, USS Khwarizmi, USS Musgrave, and USS T'Pora.
STO calls it an escort. I would call it a support ship. Canon doesn't really say one way or another what it is.
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# 9
11-10-2010, 06:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
Case in Point: The Sabre class. Why wasn't it classified as an Engineering ship in STO? It's the official ship of the Starfleet Corps of Engineers based on soft-canon:

STO calls it an escort. I would call it a support ship. Canon doesn't really say one way or another what it is.
Several sources clearly state the the Sabre (sic) class is a patrol ship designed in response to the pasting that the Federation recieved at the battle of Wolf359. It makes perfect sense that that ship is an escort.

I agree that the Defiant and the Akira should be swapped. The Defiant is slightly larger than the Saber, and smaller than the Akira. If one was to make manuverability inverse to size, then the Defiant should turn more easily than the Akira. Also, the Defiant and the Lakota were pretty evenly matched in firepower. Granted, the Lakota had the Refit skin, in the episode, the only major difference between the Lakota and other Excelsiors was the instalation of Quantom Torpedos.
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# 10
11-11-2010, 06:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilCell View Post
Several sources clearly state the the Sabre (sic) class is a patrol ship designed in response to the pasting that the Federation recieved at the battle of Wolf359. It makes perfect sense that that ship is an escort.

I agree that the Defiant and the Akira should be swapped. The Defiant is slightly larger than the Saber, and smaller than the Akira. If one was to make manuverability inverse to size, then the Defiant should turn more easily than the Akira. Also, the Defiant and the Lakota were pretty evenly matched in firepower. Granted, the Lakota had the Refit skin, in the episode, the only major difference between the Lakota and other Excelsiors was the instalation of Quantom Torpedos.
Actually O'Brien mentioned in the episode that someone had improved the tactical systems on the Lakota. He said "That's a lot of firepower for an Excelsior-class ship" he then went on to say that trying to flee from the Lakota may not be a good idea because he feared that her propulsion systems may have been "tinkered" with too.
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