Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-04-2011, 09:05 PM
Auto-teaming is not the answer.

Pre-mades giving buffs to opposite PUG teams is somewhat good.

Staying out of PVP's of ignored or other such is not the answer.

Team and Singles (PUG) queues is the answer, as long as the Singles queues unteam anyone in them before the start for random side picking.

As for emblem or dilithium farmers now, vote kicking would also be nice; as long as how many times you are kicked is tracked and if you get kicked so many times in one day, you are banned for that pvp mode for a day or longer. With a possible tracking of banning and that the banning doubles each time, so that azzhats will try to start playing right, or just be out of the pvp for long periods of time eventually.


And again I must mention this is all about choices. People will still have a choice to que up for either a PUG or premade team match; their only penalty is when starting a PUG match, they will be unteamed if in one. People don't like it, they wont do it; and people not minding getting their asses handed to them by premades 90% or more of the time will que up for both; as simple as that.

What you people don't understand is that if they keep getting unfair playing fields is that they will stop bothering with PVP other than to get some more dilithium or other rewards.

Having a singles/PUG and premade queing seperate can only be a good thing if done right.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-04-2011, 09:40 PM
bottom line is the PvP population is going to have to grow exponentially before we can even suggest this as an idea
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-04-2011, 10:48 PM
I got my rear end handed to me tonight by a fleet I've hardly every seen. It happens. Stick it out and join a pvp fleet.

I pug mostly. For some reason i don't mind loosing at all. Surveying the battlefield for future tactical descisions is vital. So when I'm teamed with players that I know, I can be my best in any situation.

Have fun kill bad guys.

-horizon
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-04-2011, 10:58 PM
I think the only way to do this is for cryptic to create an intelligent queue.

- Premade fleet detection (Users teamed up with the same fleet)
- Try to setup the queues so that it supports 2v2, 3v3 properly and leave the full premade team in queue in the hopes that another team will queue. If it takes too long to find a second full premade team, it should eventually just start the game against PuG's, because it would be unfair to wait so long and also premades who cannot find another premade likes to play sometime...

But the problem is, what do you define under premade? A premade team with scattered fleets but friends who are really good and play together, you cant do anything about that.


What should not be implemented, nice thinking though;
- Queue players based on skills what has been proposed some posts earlier.

Problem with this is that you force people to deteam and just basically PuG like you do when you are solo.


Another solution is, play better, try and improve yourself, heal your teammates when they need it, dont let them die like i see most of the time with PuG's. Join a fleet if you want which try to be better at PvP.

Even PuG versus PuG there is great differences from what Ive seen, different classes which require less skills to be more effective, etc.

I dont think there is 'just' a solution for this. But if you improve in PvP, you might get a nice spot with another PvP fleet which also do premades, and you are settled
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-05-2011, 02:01 AM
Would have been a good idea at launch, but now that PvP is on life support (thanks Cryptic) any move that further segregates the players is going to kill PvP for good.

A lot of people who don't play in premades seem to have this silly notion that premades are more or less on equal footing. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is an extreme gap between the PvP fleets that are remaining.

The top two premade teams that are regularly in the queues right now are TSI and Pandas. Inactive premades at the top level include QEW, FS, and that's pretty much it. Those teams will absolutely destroy anything below them, premade or pug.

Below that you have CDG, SOB, RE... and maybe one or two 'specialty' fleets. They'll also handily destroy anything below them 15-0.

And so on. You can loosely categorize premades into tiers, and going up or down a single tier is likely to result in a match as one-sided as a premade vs. pug match.

There's just not enough premades at the same skill level. Force premades into only fighting other premades and those players will never get to fight anyone. Even people with life time subs aren't going to want to stick around if they can't play teamed with their friends.

Cryptic needs to seriously learn how to balance games. Then the skill gap will narrow and you'll have more people playing PvP. And then, when the population is healthy again, you can look at a separate premade queue. Chances of that happening before it's too late are extraordinarily low.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-05-2011, 03:55 AM
LOL i saw faith and thought wtf is this? haha. zombie much?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-05-2011, 03:56 AM
Btw Jorf, if we would have to rate i think RE would be a lot higher than that, if you know what i mean...

I would like to see pandas 15-0 RE tbh...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-05-2011, 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TekNicTerror View Post
How bout doubling the PVP ques in game already and making the second set where people can not be on a team in game already; as in not letting teamed up people even in those ques or dividing up the teams when the game starts? Example of the dividing, a five member teams ques for this PUG only que, when the game actually starts, two of the five are removed from that team and are actually put on the other side of the match than the three others of the team [no way to divide it evenly with five just so you know].

Why you may ask?

Cause it's very unfair for a 4-5 member team, who are likely on a voice server if they are also likely in the same fleet, to face off against 5 people on the enemy team, who may not even bother to team up in the first place, who got in randomly on the same team side.

If premades wanted a fair fight, they would just challenge other premades, more like fleet battles of premades, than just join in the que and more than likely run up against 5 random people. And if they are just doing their daily PVP's together, then how bout doing it like the rest of the players and just queing up alone? And if their firends or fleeties are wanting to play together, there's always queing up at the same time so that they could be in the same match together, with the random-ness of a 50/50 shot of being on the same side.

PS, this is more for FvF, maybe KvK too, PVP's. A premade fed team vs a random or another premade klingon team would be more challenging for them than a random fed team against them; since klingons work well together better than feds do in PVP's.
I am against this, funny thing is I am a PUGger.

Nothing against you, I feel the sentiment behind the post and it is good, but what we have now in a necessary evil for a couple of reasons.

Right now there are not enough to queue up for PvP. I have waited over two hours to get a queue to pop, (as a night worker 60hrs a week I game at all the wrong times for happy time PvP), and the waits are a primary reason I am not seen in PvP.

How do you define a team? I have seen some PUG groups that are true brutal because happenstance threw together a team that had a lot of players who often PvP against each other so they have a better chance to coordinate together. They are a virtual premade. Then there are the times that I and a few friends who do not PvP get a wild hair up their tookus and decide it would be fun to team up and hit a queue. Oh we got abused. Still had fun. That said, how do you define a team?

Besides separating the queues like that would really punish many of the best players and teachers in the game who would have to wait even longer to get a match just so they can play with the folks they like in game.

That's just the way I, a fellow PUGger, see it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-05-2011, 04:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thamapp
Btw Jorf, if we would have to rate i think RE would be a lot higher than that, if you know what i mean...

I would like to see pandas 15-0 RE tbh...
I'll send you a PM with exactly that

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes though, apologies if I did. Those 'tiers' we're mainly for example and are probably debatable, but the last tourney is proof enough that team A can beat team B 15-1, team B can beat team C 15-0, team C can beat etc, etc.

It's not just that there are huge gaps between fleets, it's that those gaps result in 15-0 games that are mostly to completely un-enjoyable for the losing side. Even if you get lucky enough to have two fleets on at the same time in the 'premade queue', chances are that a decimated team isn't going to want to play more than a couple of matches. It's worse losing 15-0 in a team than it is in a pug after all, since there is pride at stake.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-05-2011, 04:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurleybird View Post
I'll send you a PM with exactly that. I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes though, apologies if I did.
Dont bother if its a public q game
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