Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-16-2010, 08:40 AM
Can we make a Sticky out of this thread? They have with Faithborn's guide to healing...this is just as, if not more, informative for the ground community. Thanks Bug.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-16-2010, 09:21 AM
The Much Hated/Loved Spawn Camp Maneuver
I do not know of anyone that has not experienced a few wipeouts where your overmatched unit never seems to get off of the spawn point, each respawning and falling in quick repetition until with bruised feelings the camped simply walk away from the Q.

For anyone that does not know the term, I offer this definition.

Spawn camping = establishing a presence at an enemy’s spawn point with the intent of overwhelming the enemy with massed fire immediately as they rise from each kill. Usually these get a bit staggered so that only one or a few members are up at one time, leaving them numerically dominated and unable to effectively respond. Placement of an engineer’s turrets, generators and drones (in other words “bunker”) greatly amplifies this effect.

The ethics of the spawn camp have been much debated. I will be addressing the mechanics of how avoid being camped yourself in this post. As a personal ethical concern my feelings vary on the level and the environment. I try not to camp a team we are gutting and just keeps popping up in crossfire. Although if they never leave the spawn, it is pretty hard to end a match without doing it. I prefer to let them regroup and go break them again. It is more of a challenge and leaves the opponents far less demoralized and willing to keep improving in the arenas. Where pros are concerned I consider the spawn camp a totally valid technique. They should know how to use their spawn to their advantage or how to get out if it is not working for them.

Bug's 5 Step Spawn Camp Avoidance Plan (a copyrighted feature from Bugaktacacus Enterprises, Fereghenar)
The biggest and most frequent mistake I see after getting split up, is letting yourself be spawn camped by superior forces (either numerical or gear and experience). “Well little Mr. Smart Guy, how do I avoid it?” you ask.

Step one: Break the cycle

DO NOT RESPAWN with the enemy remaining in place, especially with enemy turrets and drones all over the battle space.

Step two: Communicate a plan
Take a breath and get a team message to stay down until it is clear. If such a “Distress Message” goes out all who are still standing immediately proceed to step three.

Step three: GET OUTTA THERE!

Anyone that is standing should break out. You will die where you are. You are outnumbered and support will not keep spawning next to you. Retreat is the only logical option. The attackers will likely be distracted with turrets and drones for a second. So immediate action by everyone that gets the distress down message will likely let you escape alive. Even if you die fleeing, you have cleared the spawn point of anyone that is chasing you which is the bigger goal.

In this situation, “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”.

Step four: Communicate a new spot to regroup

While you are down, the map is the first place to go after your distress call. Keep an eye where your team is fleeing to and figure out a good place to meet that splits the difference between you and them without running either group into the enemy. DESIGNATE A REGROUP SPOT. A similar call can be made by the designated team leader, if they can get a message out. Of course vent is another plus here.

Step five: Respawn in unison when the area is cleared

Once your teammates have drawn off the enemy (or their boredom at you lying on the ground has), you should try to announce when you are getting up so everyone does it together. The core problem in a spawn camp is that those who are respawning one after the other each winding up overmatched numerically for the seconds they last until they die. This still holds for turrets and drones that may hang around once battle has moved. Getting up together allows you to kill those or get away fast to the designated rally point without taking the full force of everything lying and flying around.

Using a Spawn Camp to Your Advantage (highly situational)

In certain situations is can be a distinct advantage to bunker at the spawn point and make the enemy attack you there. If the game is well balanced this is a very effective strategy.

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME KIDS if the balance is greatly favoring your enemy.

The main advantage is that there is no need to try and regroup if someone falls, everyone will be up and fighting fast. If the enemy loses a player, they have to hold or run until they can get back to the fight. If you have a lot of deployable items in your bunker, they will compensate for a loss while they sit the few seconds until they can pop up. If you are following the advice I offered up front, you should have lots of these around by this point.

There you have it trainees. Your spawn point, use it or lose it.

Bug X. Insect
Star Fleet Elite Task Force
Ground PVP Trainer
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-16-2010, 10:37 AM
I have always thought that the arenas: Deserted Facility, Assimilated Cruiser and Ghost Ship could benefit from heavy turrets around the initial beam in point. 8 turrets would be nice. Something similar to the mainframe area in Shanty town. It would take a lot of effort to go around them or break them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-16-2010, 11:59 AM

P.S.Mods please sticky, my fellow players don't want me making it sticky.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-17-2010, 08:24 AM
hmmm maybe if someone will report me for bumping this thread it will get read and they will actually sticky it for us.
BTW this counts as my bump for today Bug ;P
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-17-2010, 09:17 AM
Originally Posted by couladin View Post
hmmm maybe if someone will report me for bumping this thread it will get read and they will actually sticky it for us.
BTW this counts as my bump for today Bug ;P
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-17-2010, 10:58 AM
Originally Posted by 521Jim
I have always thought that the arenas: Deserted Facility, Assimilated Cruiser and Ghost Ship could benefit from heavy turrets around the initial beam in point. 8 turrets would be nice. Something similar to the mainframe area in Shanty town. It would take a lot of effort to go around them or break them.
Hmm... Interesting idea. The problem with adding that in the arena maps is that the beam-in points are in the middle of paths to get from one place to another. In assault, they are guarding specific areas, and there is plenty of maneuvering room elsewhere.

It's part of a larger problem, in ground and space, that has had people asking for spawn point protection since launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-17-2010, 01:54 PM
Originally Posted by Kin_Balam

Kits – I almost always use the Bunker Fabrication (Fabrication Specialist at higher levels). The most effective engys have lots of deployable toys to wreak havoc on the battlefield. The keys to using these items are to get to your spot a second earlier than the enemy and drop them early and often. I usually deploy a support drone then round a corner into an enemy group firing an AOE effect weapon that will throw off their group (more in weapons) and immediately drop a cover shield (basic skill for engys commander and up). Gives you tank like ability to tank damage and switches their target lock from you to the shield making them have to retarget while your support is coming right behind you and hitting them. Then I squat down right behind it and drop the phaser and mortar turrets in quick succession. The beauty of this is that turrets deploy right through the shield and begin attacking while you and your team have cover. Last I make sure to deploy a med generator out of the likely line of sight so enemies do not blow it up and it keeps healing. I will then dart in and out targeting enemies and firing. If you have seeker drones, this is the time to pick a target and launch one of those bad boys on them. If you do keep on them as the drone starts attacking and you are now in a two on one, even more if your team is also targeting them. Every chance you get, redeploy the turrets and drones you have placed. Keep moving with the battle and dropping as you move. This is FAR MORE critical than a steady gun fire rate. Your kit skills are everything. That in a nutshell is the Bunker Fab Kit and how to use it.

An alternative is the Breach Engineer kit. It is pretty similar to the above except that it used the force field dome to keep enemies bouncing off and out. Good if you are facing folks that really like hand to hand combat and if you have a dedicated sci healer. I rarely use this to block doors off as I want to lure them in the door to get blasted. Decent escape trick although most players are learning to roll right through the door anyway.

I never use the others. But some like the enemy neutralization kit. When I see that I love it. Cuz they are gonna be dead. Weapons malfunction does nothing to stop me from dropping the deployables. If you run away a ton this one is useful. The chroniton mines and dome will slow folks that are chasing you down. Other than that, I do not find it that useful..
Very nice, however id like to expand on your engie sectiong from my full ground VA engie

1. The bunker kit is only good in 2 non pvp map.
That is infected and Terror. The other raids, you really want the Fabrication specialist, as it gives you more deployables.

In PVP, the bunker kit is great because of the shield recharge, however the medical generator is CRAP.
Even max'd its CRAP. Id personally go with fab specialist because of the extra seeker drone.

The only way to use medical generators effectively is to stack more then 2 of them, which requires another engie.

2. The purple Mk X kits vital for a good ground engie are: The Bunker Fab, and Fab Specialist.
Marks of Exploration, Marks of Valor, Marks of Honor.

3. When you max out turrets, they do more damage then whatever weapons u have.
The phaser turret of mine usually typically hits for 45-55 x 3.
The quantium Motar hits for around 200-250 in a AOE.
The Generators max'd out.. Medical = 5 per tick.. i could not get this number any higher.
The shield Generators is much better then the medical generator, as i actually see it doing something.


The other kits are more on play style, saying 1 kit is not useful then the other would mean, you didnt have a working group with the kit.

But most of the engie skills are crap.

I like to sanitize my toothbrush under obital strike.

Typical strat with engie in PVP scenarios:
Chase and more Chase (or run and more run)... pop generators and turrets around the corner... chase... shield recharge.. run to bunker... ambush.

What you dont want to do, is run into a room., and drop your turret first... this shows everyone ur open for a mass sniper fire, and you will get owned as you drop your turret.

shield recharged max'd out is pretty godly as well.
800+ regen on shields over time, and a damage reduction, and a pretty quick cooldown as well.
With a max'd medical turret, u wont die as fast, but u can still die.

Lately i am loving the type 2 phaser from rewards because of the 5 second cooldown on stun.
Basically run around drop your toys... if u get agro'd stun and drop more toys.

Remember what i said, your TOYS when MAX'd are capable of doing MORE damage then any ground weapon so far in this game.

So u want the enemy agro'd on your toys, not on you, and when they are on you, your toys will rip them a new one.

Final comments:
The Kitty Cat is probably the best ground class but it cost c points.
I say this, because of its jump height.
In PVP, there are many times when i just jump over the obsticle in my chase vs running around it, and it allows me to pounce to catch them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-18-2010, 09:24 AM
A repost from another thread on my thoughs aboutthe new toys you can used in Ground PVP

Breen cryo grenades
Cool addition and one I would love to see in groound long enough to guage its overall effect. The 20 shots limit made it an after thought before you really even knew how to best use them. Bring em back (at least until we all comlain and wish you had never listened to the first complaining).

Breen Biothermal Dampener
Strangest device ever added to the game. Utterly useless for anything but griefing people running around ESD. Expected it to come into play as a defense for your team or something at some point. Would be fun if it was an enemy hold AoE attack. Other than that it just confuses me.

Breen Freezy Ray
Was the hot item for a while. The exposes were great. The bolt and power show exposes was kind of fun. But, soon fell out of use as the long hold it puts you ito while charging makes that setting useless in PVP. Woulsd be nice to see this modified to a weapon you can run with. It may come back and spicy things up a bit. Right now I just equip a BO with it and hope for extra exposes in PvE.

Proton gun
Definitely over powered. I have on more than one occassion seem 4 of 5 teammmebers fall to a one shot. This is only possible with the added tac damage buffs. In the hands of an engy of sci, it is not too crazy. But, still a bit OP. Liked the suggeston that it be made an axpose with slightly higher damage than the asault class weapons. Briliant solution. As noted above if mission repay goes in and people are rolling with two of those; turn out the lights in there. Every match will boil down to who can get of the first team killing one shot.

Pattern Enhancers
LOVE the idea of these. Phase shifting is super cool and underused to date. Like that they are linked to the new gun damage (although it clearly needs no aditional help). Mixing items like that gives nice balance. I never use mine though for that reason. If I can be one shotted with the proton, why risk that effect being greatly amplified by your own bunker??? Los that proton damage you make it more useful. But, negate the already discussed love for items balancing each other. Maybe if the proton had the change to assault suggested, it would be worth it to use them again. Did have a funny thing hapen in recently where a team was huddeled in one. I locked ont it and tossed into the air with my telekensis. They freaked as the realized they were instantly back in our world. It was mighty funny.

Ophidan Cane
Cool addition. A bit early to judge its effects overall. Would be nice not to lose that edvice slot (or get MORE OF THEM). It could be handled the same way they have fixed the pets a devices problem. Make it a skill as long as it resides in the inventory. Does increase the value of the Fluidic Spcae tribble as that one offers the Psionic damage buff. That is nice. Currently very easy to break the hold with a quick shield charge. Have not decided if hat is good or bad yet.

New Guns from the Devidian Episode
Have not even euipt them on any VA/LG as they are so weak. The special old school paser is fun bling. But utterly ueless in combat . Sam goes for the Kling variant. But glad they were added. Would have been nice as powered up, current time retrofits of the old gear. A thought for the devs...

Cryo tribble was great as a counter to the holds from cryo grenades. But, with those essentially insta nerfed, they became rather useless IMO. Fluidic space tribble is back with the cane powers coming. To be seen. Triolic tribble does not seem very useful in any way. Correct me if I am wrong.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-18-2010, 09:26 AM
Originally Posted by Naekuh View Post
Very nice, however id like to expand on your engie sectiong from my full ground VA engie
Great additions. Lilltle hear I would disagree with.

Very much agree with the last comment on cats. The jump is a HUGE plus. My alt Tigger was created for just that. I play him as much if not more than Bug.

Thanks for the follow on info!


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