Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
11-14-2010, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
People can justify "its easy" with X Ability like FAW or Target Auxillary, but the mainstay of players do not use these abilities.
honestly then thats their fault. if you go into pvp and are not prepared to adjust your tactics then i have no sympathy. it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that small weak ships might be vulnerable to AOE abilities. i have not used fire at will in months, but i started using it again, because it works. as do the other abilities. suggesting that the bulk of players dont use those abilities is probably correct, saying they wont adjust their tactics and start using them tells me those people are not suited for competitive pvp, where tactics change.

Quote:
And 95% of the time, it requires a team effort to drop a Carrier.
unlike just about every other ship that requires teamwork to take down? even escorts need teamwork to beat if they are piloted by a skilled player.

people that walk into pvp expecting to be able to win just by hitting the fire keys at the first thing that flys by are playing it wrong. you knock out a carriers pets and they suddenly start looking very vulnerable. if every fed started using a little teamwork and skill, klinks would suddenly find their carriers less appealing.

i play a feds and i play a klingons and i pvp a fair amount. there is nothing that the klinks have that cant be countered by good players. if people are not prepared to use skill, brains, tactics and teamwork then they should stick to pve.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-14-2010, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I'm beginning to think that Fed PvE needs a mission where players attack some carrier flagship, along with an NPC Admiral's explanation on how to best tackle it. Until we see anti-carrier tactics being "advertised" more, threads like this will continue to pop up again and again.
Although this would solve I think most of the carriers are overpowered threads I doubt this will happen. Its too difficult and its too time consuming for cryptic to write up a simple tutorial like this.

The more likely scenario is cryptic nerfing the carriers into oblivion again.

Once that happens klingon players will gravitate to the new and improved Vor'cha as an effective fast attack cruiser.

Then we will see thread after thread about why that is overpowered and how all Klingon ships need a nerf.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
11-14-2010, 02:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenrir1536 View Post
Although this would solve I think most of the carriers are overpowered threads I doubt this will happen. Its too difficult and its too time consuming for cryptic to write up a simple tutorial like this.

The more likely scenario is cryptic nerfing the carriers into oblivion again.

Once that happens klingon players will gravitate to the new and improved Vor'cha as an effective fast attack cruiser.

Then we will see thread after thread about why that is overpowered and how all Klingon ships need a nerf.
Exactly!..................................
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
11-14-2010, 02:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain_Revo
honestly then thats their fault. if you go into pvp and are not prepared to adjust your tactics then i have no sympathy. it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that small weak ships might be vulnerable to AOE abilities. i have not used fire at will in months, but i started using it again, because it works. as do the other abilities. suggesting that the bulk of players dont use those abilities is probably correct, saying they wont adjust their tactics and start using them tells me those people are not suited for competitive pvp, where tactics change.



unlike just about every other ship that requires teamwork to take down? even escorts need teamwork to beat if they are piloted by a skilled player.

people that walk into pvp expecting to be able to win just by hitting the fire keys at the first thing that flys by are playing it wrong. you knock out a carriers pets and they suddenly start looking very vulnerable. if every fed started using a little teamwork and skill, klinks would suddenly find their carriers less appealing.

i play a feds and i play a klingons and i pvp a fair amount. there is nothing that the klinks have that cant be countered by good players. if people are not prepared to use skill, brains, tactics and teamwork then they should stick to pve.
QFT........
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
11-14-2010, 02:39 PM
Funnily enough, the Breen Cluster Torpedo is pretty good against carriers and fighters (due to heavy hull damage and the ability to attack multiple targets) - if you can AoE Confuse after launching it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
11-14-2010, 02:58 PM
In my experience, I typically find maybe 1 Fed Escort in any given PvP match while the rest are flying Cruisers or Science Vessels. It's only natural that most Feds would want to fly cruisers because outside of DS9, that's pretty much all you saw in the Star Trek franchise.

That being said, even with the combined Defenses and Science abilities of said ships, they simply lack the firepower or the maneuverability to effectively take down a Carrier in a reasonable amount of time before it's already spawned a 4th wave of fighters and BoP's while at the same time, taking the brunt of 2 or 3 Raptor or BoP Alpha strikes.

I would agree that one Carrier is still managable but I believe the focus of the OP's arguement was any match containing 2 or more Carriers in a coordinated premade is virtually unwinnable. Even in a Fed pre-made, that many carriers is a slaughter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
11-14-2010, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomicile
In my experience, I typically find maybe 1 Fed Escort in any given PvP match while the rest are flying Cruisers or Science Vessels. It's only natural that most Feds would want to fly cruisers because outside of DS9, that's pretty much all you saw in the Star Trek franchise.

That being said, even with the combined Defenses and Science abilities of said ships, they simply lack the firepower or the maneuverability to effectively take down a Carrier in a reasonable amount of time before it's already spawned a 4th wave of fighters and BoP's while at the same time, taking the brunt of 2 or 3 Raptor or BoP Alpha strikes.

I would agree that one Carrier is still managable but I believe the focus of the OP's arguement was any match containing 2 or more Carriers in a coordinated premade is virtually unwinnable. Even in a Fed pre-made, that many carriers is a slaughter.
unless you have a build that is able to manage debuffs and aoe better than an escort can.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
11-14-2010, 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren_Kitlor
unless you have a build that is able to manage debuffs and aoe better than an escort can.
So you sacrifice survivability to deal with one ship class while the other 2/3rds of the Klink team cuts you up?

I would simply propose maybe each Fighter costing 10 Crew and each BoP costing 100 Crew. Just as the Galaxy-R has to sacrifice 90% of the crew for its 'useless' pet.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
11-14-2010, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomicile
So you sacrifice survivability to deal with one ship class while the other 2/3rds of the Klink team cuts you up?

I would simply propose maybe each Fighter costing 10 Crew and each BoP costing 100 Crew. Just as the Galaxy-R has to sacrifice 90% of its crew for its pet.
No, I'm just saying that some ships aren't suited for taking down a Carrier (and, on a team, all escort isn't ideal due to still-used tactic of having enemy escorts decloak when the fed makes a strafing run).

For one on one, an escort would be fine against a carrier. However, in the context of a team, Nebulas and escorts are better suited for engaging 2+ carriers.

If you read my suggested ability build on the previous page, you can see why that design is ideal for bringing down a single carrier or helping a team take out three.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
11-14-2010, 03:09 PM
I've started popping off Dispersal pattern alpha 2 mine groups to deal with carrier pets. (as each group of mines will go for a different fighter. And the AOE is usually enough to maim or kill it's neighboring fighters.

Scatter volley if aimed at the carrier just as it launches does wonders as well. (Infact I'm considering dropping my Rapid Fire 1 for CSV1 to do better in FvK and have CSV1 and 2 at that point)

Warp Plasma when used correctly is devastating for carrier groups as well, as is two copies of Fire At Will coupled with Attack Pattern Beta. Which yeah pretty much dictates that the cruisers are going to be Assault or Excelsior in FvK to deal with carrier groups, as they have the speed to deliver the Plasma, and the tac slots for two FAWs, and a Beta afterwards.

Of course, the other solution for dealing with carriers is to Not Pug. Which really if you're serious about FvK you shouldn't be doing anyway, as most matches I've been in the Klingons are on Vent together and are a Team.

While 3x carriers is utterly insane (and boring) it's beatable, as the fed team should have more than enough AOEs, and heals to make a mockery of the fighters. At that point it just becomes a matter of wearing down those damned healing voquvs. Which can take forever and a day.
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