Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
While trying to get some sleep last night i had this idea (happy i remembered it this morning, hehe).

What i propose is a SHIP CRAFTING(Upgrade) system.

Just like you can use crafting material to upgrade items, you would be able to upgrade a ship to the next tier using crafting materials.

I never really did much crafting, so i don't know what a big requirement would be. But it could be made so that the material requirement grows exponentially with each tier, so you'd need to do 1 day worth of exploring to get a Miranda from Tier 1 to Tier 2, three days to get it to Tier 3, nine days to Tier 4 and one month to Tier 5.

That would make sure we don't see a whole lot of Mirandas on Tier 5 AND it would make sense. You see a Tier 5 Miranda, you'll know that it's captain had a HUGE trouble making it T5 worth.


The system itself would be quite simple. You jump aboard the ship you want to refit, go to Memory Alpha (Or UTOPIA PLANITIA, It would be a PERFECT ship refitting facility). Once there, you'd talk to an NPC or a console, put your ship in a slot and the required materials in another and hit the refit button. You'd wait around a day or so, and when it finishes your T2 escort would have T3 weapon/console slots and stats to make it comparable to the T3 escort.

Of course by comparable i mean COMPARABLE, not exactly the same. It wouldn't make sense to have a Stargazer with the same amount of hull and crew space as a Galaxy. It would have weaker hull and less crew, but it would have the same amount of slots and it would be faster and more maneuverable.


Perhaps there could even be some small, optional cosmetic changes. Like the difference between original Excelsior and Refit Excelsior, Original Connie and Refit Connie, Miranda/Soyuz/Boseman



Before anyone say anything, just take a few minutes to think about it. It would make us old ship lovers happy, it would give us old ship lovers something to do (exploring to upgrade our ships), it would explain how an old Constitution could be an admiral's ship of choice, it would introduce UTOPIA PLANITIA to the game with a VERY USEFULL role, instead of just eye candy and ultimately it would open our choices for which ship we want to use.

It's a win/win idea really, and the only ones who possibly wouldn't think so are the trekkie purists who think STO should only have un-canon, 25th century ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-19-2010, 07:51 AM
I generally support this idea.
However I'd limit this concept to Tier 2 and up otherwise we'd have some problems with the proper category of the ship in question.
The T1 ships have three consoles and three BO slots of each type.
So where would the upgrade direction take them?
Engineering? Science? Tactical?
The only options for this that I see would be different "recipies" to make a Miranda either a cruiser-type or an escort-type for example.
The only other option would be to make the Miranda basically a "Bird of Prey without a cloak".
Give her neutral BO slots and an equal amount of consoles, like the T5 BoP has three of each type.
It would certainly fit the Miranda somewhat because she and the T5 BoP would be in the 200 meter category and they'd both be the most squishy ships you can fly at T5 (except for the B'rel retrofit).
I like how you explained that you don't wand ships that are the same as other T5 ships.
I think we can see something similar right now happening with the T5 Vor'cha, that has less hul but more turnrate than the Negh'var.
And assuming the ever manage to adjust the hull on the T5 Excelsoir to even out her agility advantage over the other T5 cruisers, we might see someting similar there as well.
We'd also have more variety in ships, not just cosmetically but also in terms of functions.
We'd have lighter cruisers with better maneuverability and light escorts like a T5 Saber that could function as a "fire brigade", quickly going where it needs to go although because of her somewhat limited hull strength she'd bee less useful in sustained combat than for example a proper Advanced Escort.
Also since they are actually considerably smaller than their T5 counterparts, maybe depending hoe low the Tier was from which you grade up to Tier 5, the ship might get the "ful" armament but for example a T2 cruiser upgraded to Tier 5 should end up with only 4/3 wepons after all a Connier Refit is tiny compared even to the Prometheus.

However again I see a little problem:
When you upgrade to T5 and we assume the ships all get the typical BO configuraton we're familiar with from cruisers/science ships and escorts.
What will the Ensigen BO slot look like?
Will it be "fixed" on someting?
Will it be universal or will we have a choice which one it will be and the recipie changes according to that?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-19-2010, 08:15 AM
Hmm, i liked the way you compared the Miranda to the BoP and that brings yet another supporting argument to the table, which i haven't thought about. The STO BoP is the best example of this proposed system. It's exactly the same HULL, but receiving more and more upgrades up to the Tier 5, together with minor cosmetic changes.

As for the BO configuration, well i think that would have to be case-specific fine tuning by the devs. Canonically speaking, increasing the BO configuration also makes sense. Just look at the Connie bridge ongoing upgrade from TOS to TMP to ST5 and ST6.


However what you mean about the Ensign BO slot?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-19-2010, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruivo
Hmm, i liked the way you compared the Miranda to the BoP and that brings yet another supporting argument to the table, which i haven't thought about. The STO BoP is the best example of this proposed system. It's exactly the same HULL, but receiving more and more upgrades up to the Tier 5, together with minor cosmetic changes.

As for the BO configuration, well i think that would have to be case-specific fine tuning by the devs. Canonically speaking, increasing the BO configuration also makes sense. Just look at the Connie bridge ongoing upgrade from TOS to TMP to ST5 and ST6.


However what you mean about the Ensign BO slot?
I'm sorry but I believe you've gotten the wrong impression regarding the BoP:
The various versions are quite different.
In fact the T2 version is somewhat lager than the T1 version and not just a cosmetic veriant and from T3 onwards the ship is nearly twice the size of the T1 BoP.
The only exception is the new retrofit which is based on the T1 version and as a result now has the least amount of hitpoints of all T5 ships.
As for the BO slots: it's entirely a piece of game mechanics and not actually tied to any actual Star Trek bridge-size.

What I meant regarding the ensign slot is that for example we have the Starcruiser that has an ensign science, we have the retrofit Galaxy wth an ensign engineering and the Assault Cruiser with an ensign tactical and also some differences in terms of the console layout.
When you "upgrade" your ship it is pretty much clear how they're going to look up to T4, because they're all pretty much the same.
But on T5...well you have tree possibilites what ensign slot you get, but which one will it be?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-19-2010, 08:33 AM
I have always wondered why there isn't a way to craft a new composite metal for the hull to help the ship progress up the tree. The biggest complaint I see is justifying a greater hull strength as we level. If the outer shell is reinforced with a newly crafted (newly discovered composite by the player), why couldnt we increase it?
This process should involved a heavy investment by the player in both time and in game currency and materials. This would add to the value of that ship to the player in more than just Pew Pew power. I was very attached to my intrepid, but have no use for ablative armor and therefor I use the Rec. I would spend a lot of time just to be able to upgrade the intrepid to the next level and/or beyond when/if they do a T6.
Added BO slots can be explained by upgrading internal systems, which isn't too far fetched.
Thoughts?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-19-2010, 08:33 AM
I don't see why we need to have MORE mining in this game. We should just be able to purchase upgrades with EC. That's one way to drain the economy.

For upgrades, there should be a limit on how many you can put on your ship that decreases with tier. Let's say you want to upgrade the Nova class and it can get four upgrade slots. A player can upgrade the hull four times to provide a hull rating comparable to a tier 5 escort. Or, they could take on two armor upgrades and add a crew compartment and weapon slot.

Also, Ruivo, the link in your signature is a bit outdated what with the release of the Nebula and B'Rel refit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-19-2010, 08:35 AM
T5 ships typically have an additional ensign slot of some other profession. For example, Sovereign has an additional ensign tactical whereas Star Cruisers have an additional ensign science.

I don't really have an opinion either way how to upgrade lower tier ships into higher tier; just so long as it's implemented well. (I like the idea of expanding crafting though; need more reasons to craft!)

If it's with crafting, maybe the process of upgrading is a matter of using crafting/materials to upgrade specific aspects; not entirely unlike the tiered skill system. Say going from T2 to T3, you need to upgrade 5 various systems. Options include adding a weapon port (fore or aft), adding BO stations, adding console slots, increasing hull and/or shield strength, turn rate, speed, crew size, etc. This way you can tweak aspects to your liking or playstyle. Want your Akira to have a little bit more science at the expense of low shields? Want to have a bit more crew to your Sabre?

Like the skill system where focusing on a single skill yields diminishing returns, the same can happen with this. The types of ships drive the effectiveness of the upgrades (spend more materials to get science upgrades on an escort, or to multiple increases of the crew of a Sabre won't get up to ridiculous numbers like 500). Getting a Lt.Cmd tactical slot on your Miranda might be prohibitively expensive, or require major lacking in other stations (1 ensign science, 1 ensign engineering, 1 Lt.Cmd tactical). It would help promote a more balanced ship with minor tweaks to suit your playstyle and/or role-play.

EDIT: damn, people posted the same time as me with similar ideas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-19-2010, 08:40 AM
Nice idea which marries quite well with what DSthal posted about refits... Personally I'd love to be able to refit between classes and add my own special abilities as well...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-19-2010, 08:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
I'm sorry but I believe you've gotten the wrong impression regarding the BoP:
The various versions are quite different.
In fact the T2 version is somewhat lager than the T1 version and not just a cosmetic veriant and from T3 onwards the ship is nearly twice the size of the T1 BoP.
The only exception is the new retrofit which is based on the T1 version and as a result now has the least amount of hitpoints of all T5 ships.
As for the BO slots: it's entirely a piece of game mechanics and not actually tied to any actual Star Trek bridge-size.

What I meant regarding the ensign slot is that for example we have the Starcruiser that has an ensign science, we have the retrofit Galaxy wth an ensign engineering and the Assault Cruiser with an ensign tactical and also some differences in terms of the console layout.
When you "upgrade" your ship it is pretty much clear how they're going to look up to T4, because they're all pretty much the same.
But on T5...well you have tree possibilites what ensign slot you get, but which one will it be?


Hmm, yes, i probably did got the wrong impression in regarding the BoP since i never quite rolled a klingon character. But the T5 BoP still exemplifies it then.


Well if i might say so, i do belive that the current differences we have in T5 BO arrangement for a same role is only due to the multiple choices we have in T5 ships. The different T5 ships, in my view, have had a different and more imrpoved role distinction than the T4, T3, T2 and T1 ships. On T5 is not just about Escort, science and cruiser. Like you said, we have different cruiser roles inside the same tier, different escort roles, etc..


We could have the same kind of distinction for refitted ships in new tiers. Using your idea of different recipies would work for that.

Perhaps we could even have different configurations (read: recipies) that would change the BO arrangement for a ship inside the same tier, granting it a different role (and that would require less materials than a tier change for instance). Remember how the USS Enterprise D and the USS Odyssey were different? The Enterprise was an exploration cruiser like the current T4 Galaxy is, but the Odyesey was more on the role of an Assault Cruiser, or Tactical Support Cruiser.

Perhaps this idea of different roles inside the same tier would work even better with the Nebula.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizixMan View Post
T5 ships typically have an additional ensign slot of some other profession. For example, Sovereign has an additional ensign tactical whereas Star Cruisers have an additional ensign science.

I don't really have an opinion either way how to upgrade lower tier ships into higher tier; just so long as it's implemented well. (I like the idea of expanding crafting though; need more reasons to craft!)

If it's with crafting, maybe the process of upgrading is a matter of using crafting/materials to upgrade specific aspects; not entirely unlike the tiered skill system. Say going from T2 to T3, you need to upgrade 5 various systems. Options include adding a weapon port (fore or aft), adding BO stations, adding console slots, increasing hull and/or shield strength, turn rate, speed, crew size, etc. This way you can tweak aspects to your liking or playstyle. Want your Akira to have a little bit more science at the expense of low shields? Want to have a bit more crew to your Sabre?

Like the skill system where focusing on a single skill yields diminishing returns, the same can happen with this. The types of ships drive the effectiveness of the upgrades (spend more materials to get science upgrades on an escort, or to multiple increases of the crew of a Sabre won't get up to ridiculous numbers like 500). Getting a Lt.Cmd tactical slot on your Miranda might be prohibitively expensive, or require major lacking in other stations (1 ensign science, 1 ensign engineering, 1 Lt.Cmd tactical). It would help promote a more balanced ship with minor tweaks to suit your playstyle and/or role-play.

EDIT: damn, people posted the same time as me with similar ideas.
Hmm, i liked the idea of having to upgrade specific parts of the ship for it to qualify for a tier change, Would work as a "to do" list of sorts, and open up further oportunities for more specialized and customized changes.

Here's another thought. Make different, upgraded components have an opitional cosmetic change to the ship's hull. A science oriented Miranda might have had its roll bar removed and new sensor modules attached, like the USS Saratoga. A Tactical oriented Galaxy Glass might have Warp Nacelles modified to show new phaser emitters, like the Odyssey and all other Galaxies in the Dominion War (new only on the cosmetic, would still have the same number of hardpoints).

However one "problem" i see with more extreme customization of a ship's role would be that no one would be able to tell what kind of ship configuration your oponent has in PVP. However i DO think that this is a plus.. as it would make PVP more challenging and realistic.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-19-2010, 09:18 AM
Well, that's why I figured it'd limit how much you can lean one way or the other. Any cruiser will still be heavily engineering focused, but maybe you tweak it a bit to have a bit more science capabilities (but still nowhere near what a dedicated science vessel is)

Light cruisers are the exception here since they have no speciality, but then they'd be kinda like BoPs I suppose with more universals.
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:51 AM.