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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I've been following the debates about Klingon and esp. Carriers OPness but still haven't gotten the answer to my question.

First. I don't think Klings (or Carriers) are OP, nor do they have magical ‹berelite SKILLZ n BUILDZ. To sum it up I agree with Stormshade (#84).

http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...rmshade&page=9

Here is my problem. If buying at a cheap vendor (e.g.Vulcan) and selling for a higher price at Deferi is an exploit. What about the pet swarm, is it working like intended?

I m not asking about what BO skills help to take out carriers, nor am I asking for a nerf. But three things are well known parts of STO.

1) Disappearing mouse pointers.
2) Still suboptimal queues in PvP.
3) Reports of lag when facing large numbers of NPC.

Add
4) The existing targeting options.

Stormshade (s.a.) describes the designed choices, but I given these 4 points things don't always work out as intended it seems to me

E.g.: Joining a pvp arena at 7/0 and having don't know how many pets already swarming, means that for the reminder of the match I will try to target an (uncloaked) PC. Imho that's not what I queue up for in pvp, but hey there is always FvF.

Multiple fixes have been proposed in the forums, so I am not going to repeat them here.
I would just like to know what players and developers think about it. Design or exploit, good or bad, should or shouldn't be improved.

Once more Klings are not OP, targeting sucks, is it a design feature or flaw? Let the flaming begin...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-23-2010, 07:59 AM
Flaw I say, unentional.
The carriers are suppossed to have pets and have had them since before the "pet buffing", so why is it now just an issue with lag and targeting and not before the changes to pets?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-23-2010, 08:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Flaw I say, unentional.
The carriers are suppossed to have pets and have had them since before the "pet buffing", so why is it now just an issue with lag and targeting and not before the changes to pets?
The lag begun after the numbers of pets tripled, and the number of Carrier players are also tripled..

Where youd usually see one carrier in a match, you frequently see 3+ now.. Meaning that the pet amount isnt tripled, but 9oubled (however you say that)

I have a pretty good computer, and I still see serious lag with more than 2 carriers.. 1 is managable, 2 is borderline - 3+ is ridiculous.

Also.. Targetting someone with 8 pets on the screen is a LOT easier than the 50-100 pets you see nowadays.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-23-2010, 08:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
The lag begun after the numbers of pets tripled, and the number of Carrier players are also tripled..

Where youd usually see one carrier in a match, you frequently see 3+ now.. Meaning that the pet amount isnt tripled, but 9oubled (however you say that)

I have a pretty good computer, and I still see serious lag with more than 2 carriers.. 1 is managable, 2 is borderline - 3+ is ridiculous.

Also.. Targetting someone with 8 pets on the screen is a LOT easier than the 50-100 pets you see nowadays.
Hence -Pets are the issue-number/toughness/ targetibility/etc and not the carrier itself in my opinion. The "fix" for carriers is needed in the pets, not the carrier itself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-23-2010, 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
The lag begun after the numbers of pets tripled, and the number of Carrier players are also tripled..

Where youd usually see one carrier in a match, you frequently see 3+ now.. Meaning that the pet amount isnt tripled, but 9oubled (however you say that)

I have a pretty good computer, and I still see serious lag with more than 2 carriers.. 1 is managable, 2 is borderline - 3+ is ridiculous.

Also.. Targetting someone with 8 pets on the screen is a LOT easier than the 50-100 pets you see nowadays.

QFT

I have a decent computer with a decent graphics card and only when I am in a FvK CnH do i experience lag, not just video lag but having to hit skills numerous times to trigger, mouse pointer disappears when I have a screen full of NPCs, mines and PF. This reason alone I stay away from Fvk CnH
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-23-2010, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Hence -Pets are the issue-number/toughness/ targetibility/etc and not the carrier itself in my opinion. The "fix" for carriers is needed in the pets, not the carrier itself.
Agreed..

Carriers are/can be powerful ships and insane tanks.. But also pay a hefty price in mobility..

The solution would be to decrease the number of pets, and increase their power and/or improve petcontrol.

Sadly, many Carrier captains sit in a "Carrier-ball" comfortably behind 100 pets, with 1-2 Bursters hidden among the spam, and cant see the problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7 WOW civility to the rescue
11-23-2010, 09:19 AM
Thank you all for the civil and to the point comments.

Personally, I started playing on the unofficial mac version lately, so i won't take my lagging as being representative. But, how does it work in fleet actions for everyone? I m thinking about Fox Hound (DS9) or the Undine one. I can do these fine without lagging to become much of an issue.

Let's hope cryptic will see that this is not a Nerf-OP-Klingons issue, but something that might actually be fixed either by limiting pets, or some other programming changes, or improved targeting.

Would love to do more FvK pvp soon.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-23-2010, 09:24 AM
If all you're doing is pressing tab then you will have trouble targetting things. Surprisingly i have no trouble targetting anything or any lag in my carrier no matter how many are on the screen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9 tab vs mouse targeting
11-23-2010, 09:48 AM
Good to know that it is no problem for you Dekkameron. Does this go for targeting other players through your pet swarm, or targeting stuff from the opposition inside their pets?

Tabbed targeting is not great, I agree. But trying to click on a ship hiding behind 20-30 others with my mouse (esp, with the cursor disappearing) isn't much better either.

I need on average 3-5 clicks to actually acquire my intended target after I identified it (read I see you and get to see you're a PC).

Granted I play on a notebook screen, but even on my desktop it's a kind of thing that I don't want to spend precious seconds on, except for mines things keep moving.

I try to keep an eye on the secondary targets of other players because these are easy to acquire. I still feel that playing: *Can I click your ship on the screen?*, ruins the fun for me.

I don't have much problems with lag, just picked it up from the forums and chats where players frequently complain about it.

If I'm the only one with this problem, then there is no design problem with pet swarms. That's what I m trying to find out here.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-23-2010, 10:26 AM
this is an easy fix... pop them before they get all the spam out! muahahaha no but I agree targeting is the issue.... I think that you should have 2 different targeting mechanics... click to attack npc's then click on chracters to attack and only see real players. easy as that... that way you dont have a map full of red, which will help graphics issues and get rid of the free to spike problem.
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