Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-23-2010, 11:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
we only play 2 sci on average...
That would be all you really need. All it takes is one SNB to drop resists with one in reserve.
Tons and Tons of healing with enough sci and damage to control and destroy. Kill one heal up kill another heal up.

Its not rocket science but its also not the majority of PvP in the game. You can form a fed ball that is almost impossible to break but a fed ball is only good at arena. It when feds move in smaller groups that they become vulnerable.

Its one of the reasons I thing the Cap and Hold advantage goes to the klingons and the advantage for the Arena goes to feds.

Its also why I want to see more pvp maps that take strategy rather then just the same old klingons attack the
fed ball.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-24-2010, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTheYak
But not much. A small buff would be acceptable. I suggest a small hull or shield increase (with current resistance stacking) and a bit of turn rate to bring them closer to BoPs.

I think the STO community would be upset if cruisers were nerfed so some more incentive to fly an escort over a cruiser would be a good course of action in my opinion.

Your thoughts? Flame away - just thought I'd start a discussion.
No, we don't need Escorts to be performing more like BoP's, right now the movement is pretty un-Trekish as it is with the high speed combat and the "pew pew". (This isn't Star Wars, Cryptic).

But I do think Advanced Escorts and Fleet Escorts do need buffed so they won't be easy targets in PvP. Since they don't have a cloak, they are easy prey against Raptors, BoPs, and Defiant-Rs. Heck, right now even Negh'Vars and Vor'cha-Rs are pretty deadly against Federation Escorts. Cloaked Ambush is an extremely deadly attack.

Second, I would actually like either cannon builds being knocked down a notch or Escort Beam Builds getting some love that makes them effective in PvP. Right now, these builds are basically utlility builds in debuffing targets, but 1 on 1, they are easy targets.

Cloaked ships, I think it would be fair to remove their attack bonuses and have ships weapons charge up like shields, since it is canon that weapons are offline while cloaked along with the shields (See ST3).



As for Cruisers, they don't need nerfed at all. The trouble here is really the crazy Buff Stacking with Hazzard Emitters, TSS, and SIF. These need to be limited like having TSS be like it's canon counterpart, where it supposed to transfer your shields to another ship, not magically heal your own. Same with SIF, make it self-only.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-24-2010, 12:46 AM
I don't understand the call for escorts to get beam buffs? Really? Isn't the fact they can equip Dual Cannons the very thing that sets them apart from federation cruisers and allows them to deliver more burst damage. I don't understand are you asking for a more cruiser scort.... I don't understand why you would run more then one or two beams on an escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-24-2010, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I don't understand the call for escorts to get beam buffs? Really? Isn't the fact they can equip Dual Cannons the very thing that sets them apart from federation cruisers and allows them to deliver more burst damage. I don't understand are you asking for a more cruiser scort.... I don't understand why you would run more then one or two beams on an escort.
This is exactly why Beam Boat Escorts need buffs, because everyone has the mentality that Escorts have to have cannons to be good in PvP. You can have a pure Cannon / Turret Build Escort and be highly destructive, you can have a Beam / Cannon Hybrid and be deadly in combining the diabling ability of the Beam with the destructive power of Cannons, but those with pure beam builds are looked down upon because they have less DPS than a Cruiser.

Furthermore, if you want to encourage more people to play PvP, every build needs to be viable. In which many PvEr's use Prometheus Builds (Pure Beam Boat Escorts). So if those builds were just as good as cannon builds, people would be using the more.

And of course, having multiple Escort characters with the same builds is dull.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-24-2010, 01:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
This is exactly why Beam Boat Escorts need buffs, because everyone has the mentality that Escorts have to have cannons to be good in PvP. You can have a pure Cannon / Turret Build Escort and be highly destructive, you can have a Beam / Cannon Hybrid and be deadly in combining the diabling ability of the Beam with the destructive power of Cannons, but those with pure beam builds are looked down upon because they have less DPS than a Cruiser.

Furthermore, if you want to encourage more people to play PvP, every build needs to be viable. In which many PvEr's use Prometheus Builds (Pure Beam Boat Escorts). So if those builds were just as good as cannon builds, people would be using the more.

And of course, having multiple Escort characters with the same builds is dull.
All beam builds are just as boring as all cannon builds.
I can think of 10 build ideas off the top of my head that DO NOT involve all of anything. However to the point.

All beam builds are just as viable... in one on ones. In any team game the only thing an escort brings to the team is burst. I guess you can fire off multiple BOL... theres nothing not viable about that. Lets get the the hart of the matter you would love to see FAW be usable single target... or have a "Beam Rapid Fire" of some kind added. Perhaps I am way off the mark... what is it your suggesting exactly?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-24-2010, 03:06 AM
i do have to say this:

the only way to pilot an escort without being ground to dust by all 5 of the opposing team in 3 seconds flat in arena matches is to fly as an engineering captain. I have put my sci and tact in an escort and while both have high dps capabilities(my tact build was phenominal- it could pop a sci BoP in 6 seconds- on an alpha strike), i find the lack of adequate sci and eng slots on the escort itself kills any survivability. it really is essential to pop EPS transfer+ Nadion burst before you alpha strike, and then miracle worker while your running away as fast as those little engines can take you, but a well specced out cruiser does have the ability to follow and just keep within 10Km if they know what they are doing. this makes my poor sci and tactical builds pop while they have their tails between their legs and are running.

i do think there needs to be a little extra hull resist on the escorts to counteract this lack of ability to survive. I mean, there are people have commented on my survivability, but it took the deletion of 2 characters, multiple purchases of respec tokens, and over 120,000 starfleet merits for me to find the sweet spot in making an escort fast, barely durable(ok, 1 on 1, i can take on most cruiser captains, and have even taken out carrier builds- but in a typical arena match, escorts rarely get the chance to 1 on 1), and hard hitting.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-24-2010, 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
This is exactly why Beam Boat Escorts need buffs, because everyone has the mentality that Escorts have to have cannons to be good in PvP. You can have a pure Cannon / Turret Build Escort and be highly destructive, you can have a Beam / Cannon Hybrid and be deadly in combining the diabling ability of the Beam with the destructive power of Cannons, but those with pure beam builds are looked down upon because they have less DPS than a Cruiser.

Furthermore, if you want to encourage more people to play PvP, every build needs to be viable. In which many PvEr's use Prometheus Builds (Pure Beam Boat Escorts). So if those builds were just as good as cannon builds, people would be using the more.

And of course, having multiple Escort characters with the same builds is dull.
Not every build needs to be viable. Every power and every piece of equipment needs to be viable for one or more viable builds.

The Beam escorts main problem might be that with the current survivability issues Escorts face, that they can't contribute that effectively. They have to stay longer in battle to really get some good use out of their better firing arcs and improved aft-DPS. But they can't or they won't. So you have to build yoru Escort for maximum Alpha-Strikes, and that's the strength of Dual (Heavy) Cannons.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-24-2010, 03:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by apt.pupil
i do have to say this:

the only way to pilot an escort without being ground to dust by all 5 of the opposing team in 3 seconds flat in arena matches is to fly as an engineering captain. I have put my sci and tact in an escort and while both have high dps capabilities(my tact build was phenominal- it could pop a sci BoP in 6 seconds- on an alpha strike), i find the lack of adequate sci and eng slots on the escort itself kills any survivability. it really is essential to pop EPS transfer+ Nadion burst before you alpha strike, and then miracle worker while your running away as fast as those little engines can take you, but a well specced out cruiser does have the ability to follow and just keep within 10Km if they know what they are doing. this makes my poor sci and tactical builds pop while they have their tails between their legs and are running.

i do think there needs to be a little extra hull resist on the escorts to counteract this lack of ability to survive. I mean, there are people have commented on my survivability, but it took the deletion of 2 characters, multiple purchases of respec tokens, and over 120,000 starfleet merits for me to find the sweet spot in making an escort fast, barely durable(ok, 1 on 1, i can take on most cruiser captains, and have even taken out carrier builds- but in a typical arena match, escorts rarely get the chance to 1 on 1), and hard hitting.
oh, and my build by the way has 2 DHCs, 1 DC, 1 DBB, 3 Turrets.
Tactical: 2X BO1, CRF1&3, Tact team 1, APB, APO.(i know im missing a liutenant commander slot, but im pressed to find a decent ability to throw in at that level. thinking of APD, but not too sure about its viability with APO and APB
Eng: Eng team 1, Aux to STI 1
Sci: TSS1, HE2

it just is not enough to make them survive better than science vessels if your not an eng captain

sorry for the double post. i thought i hit the edit button
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-24-2010, 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by faithborn
we only play 2 sci on average...
and you assumed being best teams?! preposterous!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-24-2010, 05:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
I don't understand the call for escorts to get beam buffs? Really? Isn't the fact they can equip Dual Cannons the very thing that sets them apart from federation cruisers and allows them to deliver more burst damage. I don't understand are you asking for a more cruiser scort.... I don't understand why you would run more then one or two beams on an escort.

THIS...

The whole point of escorts is they are able to mount cannons so why would you shot yourself in the foot
DPS wise.

That being said no one should look down on anyone for the way they setup their ship but then there should
be no buff for running that ship contrary to what it was built for.
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