Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 91
11-26-2010, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsranger View Post
I was talking about your computer case.
lol.
Yeah, it's a bigger target.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 92
11-26-2010, 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
That doesn't stop the B'Rel from being one of the most popular ships on the Klingon side.

This is what I don't get. The answer to this debate, about what to do with the lower tier ships, is so incredibly simple. And it's already been done, with the B'Rel.

No one complains about the B'Rel. So take that template, make a few tweaks to compensate for lack of cloak, and voila', you have a believeable T5 version of your favorite lower tier ships. And it makes the purists happy because it won't be 1 shotting Sovereigns.

It's absolutely perfect.
Agreed.
Or heck, just say "This ship has a more advanced warp core" and that's all you need.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 93
11-26-2010, 01:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic_One View Post
I have no desire to PvP, not with an NX nor with my Fleet escort. And I can't imagine anyone who likes Star Trek would believe that even Kirk, in his TOS Constitution would stand any chance in PvP against a ship with 145 years of advanced tech design.

So you agree with what I said about it being a starter ship even though you quoted me and replied that you are still using it at LCDR 5?





One minute you are respond to my statement of it being a starter ship by stating that you are using it at a higher level.

Then you reply to me again and state that obviously nobody would use it at a higher level.

You don't seem to have any sort of discernible stance on this topic. I believe you have replaced a rational thought strategy with a "i'll put a smiley face at the end of what i think is a good retort or quip to make it seem like i just outwitted someone or disproved something they said when in reality i have done nothing" strategy.


You fail.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 94
11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidNuetronium
The naysayers have no valid reason to naysay, bottom line. The federation is fighting a shooting war in 5-6 fronts. They need to crank out simple proven designs. Quality through quantity, it works.
That's one of the most ridiculous reasons for doing it. You're basically suggesting there was no improvement to ship design inside and out for almost 300 years, and the designers decided "hey, we haven't done anything as good as that NX...so let's build it again!" Sure.

I actually do have one, but 1. it's for my storage toon, so I haven't really flown it that much, and 2. only got it for the extra tac consol to see how much better it could do in pvp. Other than these reasons, there's just no....well, good reason to have one unless you're an Enterprise fan....which I'm not. <--- would rather have had the NX features on a totally new Tier 1 ship, and/or another T1 ship added to the Klingon side.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 95
11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordDave View Post
Agreed.
Or heck, just say "This ship has a more advanced warp core" and that's all you need.
Come to think of it the Enterprise D did a few upgrades during the seasons that were supposed to go on the next class of ships giving it superior power output and transfer capabilities.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 96
11-26-2010, 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romulus_Prime View Post
That's one of the most ridiculous reasons for doing it. You're basically suggesting there was no improvement to ship design inside and out for almost 300 years, and the designers decided "hey, we haven't done anything as good as that NX...so let's build it again!" Sure.

I actually do have one, but 1. it's for my storage toon, so I haven't really flown it that much, and 2. only got it for the extra tac consol to see how much better it could do in pvp. Other than these reasons, there's just no....well, good reason to have one unless you're an Enterprise fan....which I'm not. <--- would rather have had the NX features on a totally new Tier 1 ship, and/or another T1 ship added to the Klingon side.
The question you need to ask is...

What design flaws does it have that the Akira does not?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 97
11-26-2010, 01:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volpe View Post
I've been reading here on the forums that when Cryptic announced plans to add the NX to the game a bunch of people threatened to cancel their subs if they did. I don't understand why adding the NX as a high lvl Retrofit Escort. There are several things that can be changed in the original NX interior layout compared to the Defiant, that can make room for modern systems.
  1. A Deck Situation Room
  2. C Deck Upper Observation Deck
  3. C Deck Gymnasium
  4. D Deck Decon room
  5. D Deck Guest Quarters
  6. F Deck Lower Observation Deck
  7. G Deck Grapplers
  8. G Deck Guest Quarters
  9. The Kitchen
  10. Around 30 Crew Quarters

So taking all these things into consideration, please explain to me why adding this ship would make the game so horrible that you would want to cancel your sub?
Actually, there were about 10 Bridge Officers
and they each got their own quarters
83-10=73
73/2=About 36-1 room(Time Travel Episodes)+10=45 Crew Quarters.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 98
11-26-2010, 01:51 PM
How can it be none canon to bring back old ships with refits? Has everyone forgotten the episode of TNG with the storage yard of old ships waiting for a need to be refit and brought back into service? Plus the majority of the engineering of the NX class is already done, all you have to do is move some bulkheads and add some new tech, so it would take far less time to build these ships than it would to sit down a design a new escort from scratch.

As for myself, I don't have any characters low enough to make any use of the NX but I want to be able to use it for a long while really bad, i love the look of the ship. Being past my 300 day reward, a new toon wouldn't be a low enough lvl to make use of the ship for long enough to make it worth while.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 99
11-26-2010, 01:53 PM
I say we ditch the current "Tier" system from ships entirely.

I came up with a proposal for upgradeable ships three months ago that outlines a way to upgrade whatever ship you want to your current rank, and still keep things balanced.

The way this would work is that ships would still require a minimum skill level (note I didn't say rank requirement, but that's a discussion for another thread), but if you wanted to upgrade one of your previous ships or the one you're currently flying as you level up, you can. Method to "refit" your ship (vendor NPC, crafting, mission, etc.) is unimportant for this discussion, but the mechanics of the upgrade itself is.

What would happen is that per "level" or "tier" that you upgrade your ship to, there are some things that upgrade as a result of the technology, and some things that don't upgrade as a limit of the ship itself.

Things that upgrade:
  • Ship Hull Strength: raised to be more in line with other ships in the same tier and type. This is seen already in that all ships in the same tier and same class (science, escort, cruiser) have the same hull. Although I think this is 'less realistic' of an actual refit, I also think it is necessary in order to have upgradeable ships that don't get vaporized instantly. {note this proposal was done in August, so I haven't gone back to compare the Nebula and Excelsior hulls with other ships in their tiers}
  • Bridge Officer Stations: These will be increased one rank per tier. The number of Bridge Officers assigned to the bridge will not be increased, but instead each of the existing bridge officer stations get one extra ability to use per "tier" that the ship is upgraded. If you upgrade your T1 TOS Constitution to a T4, you will not suddenly be able to fit 8 bridge officers on a ship that could originally only fit 3 on the bridge, BUT those three bridge officers would be able to use Commander skills. I also think this fits in nicely to the fact that over time, fleets will have figured out how to do more things with an older ship class than they would with a brand new ship.
Things that would not be upgraded:
  • Number of weapon slots: This is a limitation of the ship frame itself. Although you can put any weapon that you have access to into the slot (as you can currently), you cannot suddenly manage to fit 48 phaser arrays on your T5 Nova.
  • Number of Consoles/Devices: Same as the weapons, a limitation of the ship frame. You can upgrade the tech that goes in, but you're not upgrading the volume of its capacity. {I can see giving some leeway for this though}
  • Ship Crew: Again, your T1 NX will not suddenly have the capacity for 1200 people just because you're upgrading it
  • Ship Turn Rate/Inertia/Impulse Mod: Again, not changing these as you're not radically changing the ship's mass and structure. They still conform to their original properties. For most ships, this is to their benefit. Not only are players used to how certain ships handle in flight, but also lower-tiered ships tend to be slightly more maneuverable than their upper-tier counterparts (Ex: a T2 Constitution (refit) is rightly quite a bit more maneuverable than a T4 Galaxy). This also helps to keep ships with unique properties instead of just being reskins of other pre-existing ships

Here is a link to a spreadsheet that details how the upgraded ships would compare to the regular ships of the same tier.

I believe this keeps things balanced in a way that still keeps individual ship types unique. The older, but upgraded ships may not have as much sheer firepower as the newer ships, but they make up for it by having higher skilled officers on the bridge. This method of upgrade caps out the optimization of the T1 ships such as the Miranda, Constitution, and now the NX at the T4 level. However, if you were to decide that you wanted to take your Miranda all the way to T4, you'd find yourself with a ship that although it only has 3 weapon slots, has 12 abilities, 4 from each of your three BOffs! Compare to the T4 Galaxy which although it has 7 weapons, only has 9 BOff abilities, and turns like a freight train.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 100
11-26-2010, 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direphoenix View Post
I say we ditch the current "Tier" system from ships entirely.

I came up with a proposal for upgradeable ships three months ago that outlines a way to upgrade whatever ship you want to your current rank, and still keep things balanced.

The way this would work is that ships would still require a minimum skill level (note I didn't say rank requirement, but that's a discussion for another thread), but if you wanted to upgrade one of your previous ships or the one you're currently flying as you level up, you can. Method to "refit" your ship (vendor NPC, crafting, mission, etc.) is unimportant for this discussion, but the mechanics of the upgrade itself is.

What would happen is that per "level" or "tier" that you upgrade your ship to, there are some things that upgrade as a result of the technology, and some things that don't upgrade as a limit of the ship itself.

Things that upgrade:
  • Ship Hull Strength: raised to be more in line with other ships in the same tier and type. This is seen already in that all ships in the same tier and same class (science, escort, cruiser) have the same hull. Although I think this is 'less realistic' of an actual refit, I also think it is necessary in order to have upgradeable ships that don't get vaporized instantly. {note this proposal was done in August, so I haven't gone back to compare the Nebula and Excelsior hulls with other ships in their tiers}
  • Bridge Officer Stations: These will be increased one rank per tier. The number of Bridge Officers assigned to the bridge will not be increased, but instead each of the existing bridge officer stations get one extra ability to use per "tier" that the ship is upgraded. If you upgrade your T1 TOS Constitution to a T4, you will not suddenly be able to fit 8 bridge officers on a ship that could originally only fit 3 on the bridge, BUT those three bridge officers would be able to use Commander skills. I also think this fits in nicely to the fact that over time, fleets will have figured out how to do more things with an older ship class than they would with a brand new ship.
Things that would not be upgraded:
  • Number of weapon slots: This is a limitation of the ship frame itself. Although you can put any weapon that you have access to into the slot (as you can currently), you cannot suddenly manage to fit 48 phaser arrays on your T5 Nova.
  • Number of Consoles/Devices: Same as the weapons, a limitation of the ship frame. You can upgrade the tech that goes in, but you're not upgrading the volume of its capacity. {I can see giving some leeway for this though}
  • Ship Crew: Again, your T1 NX will not suddenly have the capacity for 1200 people just because you're upgrading it
  • Ship Turn Rate/Inertia/Impulse Mod: Again, not changing these as you're not radically changing the ship's mass and structure. They still conform to their original properties. For most ships, this is to their benefit. Not only are players used to how certain ships handle in flight, but also lower-tiered ships tend to be slightly more maneuverable than their upper-tier counterparts (Ex: a T2 Constitution (refit) is rightly quite a bit more maneuverable than a T4 Galaxy). This also helps to keep ships with unique properties instead of just being reskins of other pre-existing ships

Here is a link to a spreadsheet that details how the upgraded ships would compare to the regular ships of the same tier.

I believe this keeps things balanced in a way that still keeps individual ship types unique. The older, but upgraded ships may not have as much sheer firepower as the newer ships, but they make up for it by having higher skilled officers on the bridge. This method of upgrade caps out the optimization of the T1 ships such as the Miranda, Constitution, and now the NX at the T4 level. However, if you were to decide that you wanted to take your Miranda all the way to T4, you'd find yourself with a ship that although it only has 3 weapon slots, has 12 abilities, 4 from each of your three BOffs! Compare to the T4 Galaxy which although it has 7 weapons, only has 9 BOff abilities, and turns like a freight train.
What about power systems?
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