Lt. Commander
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# 141
11-26-2010, 05:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexsam View Post
The Enterprise-D was destroyed not by being inferior, but by espionage. A Mk XII torpedo will do the same damage fried from a B'Rel that it will from a Hegh'Ta. So you picked a terrible example there.

Never heard of the Odyssey, is that from DS9 or is it from some crappy soft canon book?

Also, the Prometheus has no MVAM at the moment in STO, and even then, I doubt its systems could handle the sheer output of three warp cores running wide open. It'd fry itself.
The Odyssey is from DS9. Season 3 if I'm correct.
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# 142
11-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
The Odyssey is from DS9. Season 3 if I'm correct.
I'll be sure to check that out.
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# 143
11-26-2010, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
If it works for the B'Rel, it can certainly work for the Nova, Sabre and Excalibur, which are plenty modern, and wouldn't be out of place fighting alongside Sovereigns, Avengers, Lunas and the like.
The difference is that the B'rel-style has been used for half a dozen different classes, and not just one.

The Klingon Empire is fond of recycling existing hull shapes out of sheer efficiency, as they do not employ replicators in the same way as the Federation but rather rely on more "classic" means of production. Their construction yards are not as modular, but specialized in churning out part after identic part instead of allowing for on-the-fly reconfiguration. Hence it gets important to keep on going until that particular hull type is completely obsolete.

The Federation doesn't do this. It has no need for it, as it has a far more powerful economy and can afford to redesign its ships (or their uniforms ) every few years. Which is why Starfleet has much, much, much more visual variety in its fleet than the KDF. Refits are still being done (such as the Rhode Island-variant for the Nova or the Lakota-variant for the Excelsior), but they're still the same ship class. New classes inevitably employ the latest in engineering insights, allowing the Federation to maintain the most advanced fleet within the quadrant rather than half the force being made up of old junkers like in the Klingon Empire.

As for the B'rel, I'd just have called it a K'vort. Problem solved. But the main issue is that it doesn't stand out as "not fitting in" as much as the NX or the Connie. Whatever class of BoP it was, we've seen that shape still in use last we saw something from the Prime Universe. It's part of the era. The NX and the Connie are not. At least that's my gripe with them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
So there is validity in my argument. If you want to limit ships based on age and size, then it needs to be applied equally across the board.
I think you two are talking past each other. There is validity in your argument, but putting ships like the Galaxy in T2 is far too much. You can't go by age alone.

The Odyssey fought against three ships, by the way. And I suppose being rammed without shields would've hurt a Sovereign just as much.
http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/USS_Odyssey
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# 144
11-26-2010, 05:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneralBannon View Post
I would not go so far and say that I hate the NX Retrofit. But IMHO this ship class is simply obsolete. It should only be used as a nostalgic replica. No one would retrofit a more than 250 year old design. It's like that the U.S. Navy would outfit a three-master sailing vessel with nuclear propulsion to use it as support vessel for a carrier battlegroup. And now, when we have got the NX-Class ingame right now, where would this retrofit story end?
Like I said in some other threads before: Is it too late to demand a fully retrofit 21st century Spaceshuttle as a tier 5 escort ship?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution

What wikipedia doesn't know is that when she was reconstructed in 1995, the Navy gave her nuclear engines, guided missiles, and freaking death rays. It's all very hush hush covert stuffs.
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# 145
11-26-2010, 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
As for the B'rel, I'd just have called it a K'vort. Problem solved. But the main issue is that it doesn't stand out as "not fitting in" as much as the NX or the Connie. Whatever class of BoP it was, we've seen that shape still in use last we saw something from the Prime Universe. It's part of the era. The NX and the Connie are not. At least that's my gripe with them.
There it is again. Even though you and I were discussing the Excalibur, Nova and Sabre, you automatically default back to the TOS Connie and NX.

I recognize those two ships, and probably the Miranda, present major problems in this discussion, but in the case of what I'm arguing for, I take those two ships out of the equation.

There is no reason the Excalibur, Nova and Sabre should be held back, when the B'Rel (Tier 1) is not. There is no reason those small, but modern, ships can't be given the "weak T5 with high customization" treatment that the B'Rel got.

And as I keep saying, over and over again, if the Excalibur was all I could achieve in a T5 Constitution facsimilie, then I'd be fine with that. But holding back the Excalibur, a post 2379 ship, because it resembles the TOS Connie, doesn't make sense, when the B'Rel is not held back, regardless of the several sizes of BOP it resembles.
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# 146
11-26-2010, 05:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CedricO
ide like to see a retrofit of this in space: http://www.scootline.nl/Model%20Easy%20Shopper.jpg that would be so awesomesauce
How do you think I get around my ginormous bridge?
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# 147
11-26-2010, 05:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptMattSchwab
There it is again. Even though you and I were discussing the Excalibur, Nova and Sabre, you automatically default back to the TOS Connie and NX.
Merely because that's what I see the majority of the yaysayers going for. I'm perfectly happy with seeing the Saber or the Nova again in higher tiers. In fact, one or two of my characters would likely get them.

Really, what disturbs me is the "look and feel" of seeing ships that are clearly outdated standing up to contemporary designs. I'm a canon nut, but I have no problem with bending things a little as long as it remains explainable (without the need for BS excuses like "replica", "mothballing" and "modular construction") and it has no negative effect on the atmosphere. Given how much variety we've seen in Starfleet so far, I'd even say that "T4.5" Novas, Sabers, Excaliburs or whatever would make things look more like they did in the show.

I just don't see it work for the Connie or the NX, that's why my warning bells are ringing.
Lt. Commander
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# 148
11-26-2010, 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Merely because that's what I see the majority of the yaysayers going for. I'm perfectly happy with seeing the Saber or the Nova again in higher tiers. In fact, one or two of my characters would likely get them.

Really, what disturbs me is the "look and feel" of seeing ships that are clearly outdated standing up to contemporary designs. I'm a canon nut, but I have no problem with bending things a little as long as it remains explainable (without the need for BS excuses like "replica", "mothballing" and "modular construction") and it has no negative effect on the atmosphere. Given how much variety we've seen in Starfleet so far, I'd even say that "T4.5" Novas, Sabers, Excaliburs or whatever would make things look more like they did in the show.

I just don't see it work for the Connie or the NX, that's why my warning bells are ringing.
People who confuse a Starfleet Constitution class starship for their crazy Aunt Connie who smells bad and has a creepy mole with hair on her upper lip can't pretend to know anything about Star Trek canon.
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 149
11-26-2010, 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pasquatic
People who confuse a Starfleet Constitution class starship for their crazy Aunt Connie who smells bad and has a creepy mole with hair on her upper lip can't pretend to know anything about Star Trek canon.
Ah shaddap, I picked this up on the forums here. I can't do anything about it! D:
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 150
11-26-2010, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Merely because that's what I see the majority of the yaysayers going for. I'm perfectly happy with seeing the Saber or the Nova again in higher tiers. In fact, one or two of my characters would likely get them.

Really, what disturbs me is the "look and feel" of seeing ships that are clearly outdated standing up to contemporary designs. I'm a canon nut, but I have no problem with bending things a little as long as it remains explainable (without the need for BS excuses like "replica", "mothballing" and "modular construction") and it has no negative effect on the atmosphere. Given how much variety we've seen in Starfleet so far, I'd even say that "T4.5" Novas, Sabers, Excaliburs or whatever would make things look more like they did in the show.

I just don't see it work for the Connie or the NX, that's why my warning bells are ringing.
And that is perfectly fine in my book.

Let the Excalibur serve as the "T5 TOS Connie". A 2409 era ship, that has been refitted, and pays homage to the original that started it all.

And leave the TOS Connie and NX and Miranda down below.

If that is what it takes to get me a T5 Excalibur or a T5 Nova or a T5 Sabre, then sign me up.

And I completely agree that bringing the Nova, Sabre and Excalibur up, using the same profile as the B'Rel, would add the variety and "fleet feel" that alot of people would like to see.

The TOS fans get their homage via the Excalibur. Perhaps the NX fans get their homage when the Akira gets the T5 makover, by having an inverted Akira.

Then everyone gets a little something, in a believeable manner.
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