Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 311
11-28-2010, 03:20 PM
Don't forget that Bashir, Martok, Garak, and Worf escaped a high security Dominion Prison Camp and made it all the way back to the Aphpa Quadrant. And Odo destroyed a Jem Hadar Warship with a runabout too. If a runabout can do it, so can the modern NX class!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 312
11-28-2010, 03:24 PM
The thing about Star Trek is that lower Tiered ships weren't useless, but were easy to kill. But the trick is how to upgrade older ships to be somewhat viable in PvP. That is not an easy task because who would want to really fly a Sabre when the Prometheus is so superior?

If STO was built around an actual Starfleet where players are mainly in Tier 1 or Tier 2 ships, and the upper Tier ships are more rare, so you wouldn't see many Tier 5 Ships out in the Sector. But given the machanics of STO right now, this isn't going to happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrdden74
Unfortunately, it's too late for that. Look at all of the skills that have been nerfed or completely changed gamewide for the sake of PvP. Vocal minority, as it were, much like these discussions. I always see the same handful of detractors raise hell in any thread that has this type of discussion.
Yes, Cryptic does like to listen to the PvP playerbase more than the PvE playerbase. I still remember that mass exodus back months ago when PvP was "rebalanced" which really hurt PvE. One great example how PvP Balance messed up PvE is with Khitomer where Escorts damage was really reduced and nobody was able to get passed the first stage.

So in the end it was basically, "The needs of the few outweighed the needs of the many".


What Cryptic needs to do is have 2 seperate values for PvE and PvP regarding abilities and damage. That way in PvE you can have full power, but in PvP certain abilities are curtailed or rendered ineffective on other players.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 313
11-28-2010, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrdden74
The list can go on. The point is, this is a game where gameplay comes first.
Breaking news: Gameplay comes first in every game. Doesn't mean you have to throw every last bit of consistency out of the window.

Sheesh, you're talking as if all the other Trek games were no fun because they didn't allow you to blow up Borg Unimatrices with the Phoenix.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CardassianNinja View Post
Don't forget that Bashir, Martok, Garak, and Worf escaped a high security Dominion Prison Camp and made it all the way back to the Aphpa Quadrant. And Odo destroyed a Jem Hadar Warship with a runabout too. If a runabout can do it, so can the modern NX class!
You're conveniently omitting the fact that Odo was given detailed insider information about how to disable those ships by Weyoun. Also: plot device.

But that aside, I'm pretty sure you can already destroy a Jem'Hadar Fighter with both the Runabout and the NX in STO ... without changing anything about their tier.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 314
11-28-2010, 03:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CardassianNinja View Post
And Odo destroyed a Jem Hadar Warship with a runabout too. If a runabout can do it, so can the modern NX class!
Don't forget that Weyoun 6 gives details to Odo about the weakness of the fighter which allows Odo to destroy it with a sustained twin-Phaser blast.

It never would have been able to do it without inside knowledge of the ship's weaknesses.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 315
11-28-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm trying to think if the delta flyer destroyed anything of value. I'm not very good at voyager.

Yes, I remember that the Vorta told Odo where to fire. You win!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 316
11-28-2010, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincire View Post
At a severely diminished capacity. I'm talking upgrading the ship in it's entirety so it functions properly in it's new tier.
The severely diminished capacity makes perfect sense in context. At some point, the size and shape of the room you have available will reduce the amount of power you can generate and how you get it to where it needs to be.

Of course, you'd be able to squeeze more out of the ships if the corridors weren't 50 ft wide and 30 ft tall.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 317
11-28-2010, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LotD
The severely diminished capacity makes perfect sense in context. At some point, the size and shape of the room you have available will reduce the amount of power you can generate and how you get it to where it needs to be.

Of course, you'd be able to squeeze more out of the ships if the corridors weren't 50 ft wide and 30 ft tall.
Again, size of ship does not determine it's potential. The Defiant is supreme example of what can be done with a small vessel. There is no reason that a Constitution/NX/Miranda cannot be upgraded to the same level.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 318
11-28-2010, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincire View Post
Again, size of ship does not determine it's potential. The Defiant is supreme example of what can be done with a small vessel. There is no reason that a Constitution/NX/Miranda cannot be upgraded to the same level.
The Defiant's warp core is 5 decks tall. The NX's engineering is only 1.5 decks tall. The core wouldn't fit, not even laying down like the original NX core. It is a replica after all.

Other than that, the Defiant is purpose built to do exactly what it does. The other ships are not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 319
11-28-2010, 04:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Breaking news: Gameplay comes first in every game. Doesn't mean you have to throw every last bit of consistency out of the window.

Sheesh, you're talking as if all the other Trek games were no fun because they didn't allow you to blow up Borg Unimatrices with the Phoenix.
Breaking news, I have to reiterate it because you and the handful of others still don't get it. You've proven that again by your last sentence too since at no time did I make any of those claims.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 320
11-28-2010, 04:05 PM
And a constitution would tear itself to pieces with a Defiant style warp-core.
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