Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
11-27-2010, 03:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
the officer themselves are perfectly fine, its when you stick them in a ship that things get screwy.

engineerings in escorts- med-high damage, med survival
engineers in cruisers- high damage, high-very high survival
engineers in science low-med damage, med-high survival

tactical in escort- high-very high damage, low-med survival
tactical in cruiser- high damage, medium survival
tactical in science- medium damage, medium survival

science in escorts- medioum-high damage, low survival
science in cruisers- medium damage, high survival
science in science- low damage, high survival

i think thats the generalized feel for each class in in ship type.
Don't forget carriers!

Science in carrier - High dps, high survival
Tactical in carrier - high dps medium/high survival
Engineer in a carrier - High dps, high survival

(just thought i'd add some petrol)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
11-27-2010, 03:44 AM
You're just noticing this now?

In case you haven't worked it out yet allow me to enlighten you...

SCI toon > ENG toon > TAC toon.


TAC toon is so utterly worthless in premades right now. Its extra damage buffs aren't worth it, and SCI's SNB and SS kills resistance stacked targets way better than any TACs burst can.

TAC class is pretty much obsoleted by SCI class. TAC's damage abilities are not enough to break a epic resistances and healing.

When i fly my BOP i would rather fight a 3on1 vs 3 TAC escorts, than fight a 1v1 vs 1 SCI escort. SCi has more of a chance to crack my shields and is far less squishy
That's how bad the imbalance is.

I have made 2 TAC toons and i wont be making any more every again, unless game balance changes get made.
I already posted the reasons why SCI is so much superior to TAC HERE You can read the reasons why if you wish.


Fact is that SCI spam is here to stay unless TAC gets buffed up with better burst damage abilities and defensive skills. Either that or until sci's SNB gets a major nerf.

I seriously hope the community continues to sci spam with all sci toons and have constant SNB wars in PVP, maybe then someone at cryptic will wake the f**K up and fix it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
11-27-2010, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
Have you any idea how many times science has been nerfed? We get the bat'o'nerf pretty much every major patch. Yet we soldier on and still everyone calls us overpowered....
Its because no one has learned how to take on Sci ships yet. Everyone seems to just try and pew-pew their way past them when they simple cant. My main is a Tactical and I find myself using different tactics for different ships
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
11-27-2010, 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipermist
You're just noticing this now?

In case you haven't worked it out yet allow me to enlighten you...

SCI toon > ENG toon > TAC toon.


TAC toon is so utterly worthless in premades right now. Its extra damage buffs aren't worth it, and SCI's SNB and SS kills resistance stacked targets way better than any TACs burst can.

TAC class is pretty much obsoleted by SCI class. TAC's damage abilities are not enough to break a epic resistances and healing.

When i fly my BOP i would rather fight a 3on1 vs 3 TAC escorts, than fight a 1v1 vs 1 SCI escort. SCi has more of a chance to crack my shields and is far less squishy
That's how bad the imbalance is.

I have made 2 TAC toons and i wont be making any more every again, unless game balance changes get made.
I already posted the reasons why SCI is so much superior to TAC HERE You can read the reasons why if you wish.


Fact is that SCI spam is here to stay unless TAC gets buffed up with better burst damage abilities and defensive skills. Either that or until sci's SNB gets a major nerf.

I seriously hope the community continues to sci spam with all sci toons and have constant SNB wars in PVP, maybe then someone at cryptic will wake the f**K up and fix it.
There are ways around SNB you know. it isn't the uber ability you might think it is if you know what to do.
The obvious one is to blow an RSP when you start getting alpha'd. Most sci pilots see the green glow and SNB straight away. That's when you whack a sci team and use your other tankinbg/healing abilities

and there, you are no longer SNB'd and still have a tank.

Although this method does involve your team to be awake, so good luck with that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
11-27-2010, 04:30 AM
Tac lost its edge when resist stacking became dominate and the ability to cross train high lvl BO skills was introduced. A long cooldown 50% bonus to attack is not a great help vs ships with 75% resists when you have no means to disrupt that mitigation. This is particularly true when you have a tac in an escort that then has to rely on one or two low lvl engi skills for survival.

An Engi in an escort has all his class abilities to buff his survivability, and is just as likely have have a copy HY3/CFR3 or APO3 or APB3 etc so the loss in base damage is a lot smaller over the course of the match. The extra time the Tac has his full alpha available is easily tanked by an engi who will then have exactly the same lvl of damage.

A sci captain in an escort can also easily buff his shields to the cap using his captain skills (in fact he can buff his whole teams shields by 50%+, mine is 51atm) for 30s, remove the tacs alpha abilities and again still has access to the higher skills that maintain his damage output, a sci focused on a dps build can out perform a tac as it does not have to blast its way through high reists it simply removes them.

Given that the vast majority of players solo pug, and even when they do accept a team invite continue to act as a solo pug (the only advantage of the team invite is to relocate your team after you blow up) the engi offers the soloer greater survivability ofer the solo tac and the sci offers good survivability and nice utility. Neither build will demonstrate lower damage in the hands of most puggers.

When i solo on my sci i do have generally a little less damage than when on my tac (but then i have a clue about playing a tac) however the team will generally perform better when i am on my sci breaking the defence of tough ships and providing defensive boosts with the shild buff and dampening field, and lets not forget the photonic fleet.

It is hardly surprising that there are very few tac escorts flying about atm, many have swapped to cruisers or are on sci/engis now under these conditions.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
11-27-2010, 05:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
In a premade i dont really see the need for an engineer. I'd much rather have 3 sci and 2 tacs.
Engineers don't really give anything to the group with their innate abilities. Admittedly neitehr do tacs but they can do a poop load of burst dps unlike an engy.

Obviously i am talking from a KDF point of view but i think what i am saying counts for both sides.
eng or tac just hamper now. a 5 man sci team will beat the other set up any time 5 snb and 5 photonic fleet is going to be better than any other set up that i guess is my prob. any thing you do as a single person is not going to stop 5 snb's. 90% of the fights i have done in the last 3 days are sci toons in diffrent ships but all sci.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
11-27-2010, 07:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by matteo716 View Post
the officer themselves are perfectly fine, its when you stick them in a ship that things get screwy.

engineerings in escorts- med-high damage, med survival
engineers in cruisers- high damage, high-very high survival
engineers in science low-med damage, med-high survival

tactical in escort- high-very high damage, low-med survival
tactical in cruiser- high damage, medium survival
tactical in science- medium damage, medium survival

science in escorts- medioum-high damage, low survival
science in cruisers- medium damage, high survival
science in science- low damage, high survival

i think thats the generalized feel for each class in in ship type.

I disagree that the officers are balanced.

The ability to strip Buffs and debuff is far more important than tacs ability to do slightly higher damage, and tacs lack of defensive skills and team support skills that comes with tac is another reason why it doesn't cut it

Let me rewrite your list in terms of actual effectiveness, when taking into account all toon officer skills and ship layouts. Ratings based on 1 being worst and 6 being best. Overall effectiveness score combines the ratings scores of both offensive and defensive ratings.


engineer in escorts - offensive rating 4 | defensive rating 3 | effectiveness score = 7
engineer in science - offensive rating 2 | defensive rating 5 | effectiveness score = 7
engineer in cruisers - offensive rating 3 | defensive rating 6 | effectiveness score = 9

tactical in escorts - offensive rating 5 | defensive rating 1 | effectiveness score = 6
tactical in science - offensive rating 3 | defensive rating 3 | effectiveness score = 6
tactical in cruisers - offensive rating 4 | defensive rating 4 | effectiveness score = 8

science in escorts - offensive rating 6 | defensive rating 2 | effectiveness score = 8
science in science - offensive rating 4 | defensive rating 4 | effectiveness score = 8
science in cruisers - offensive rating 5 | defensive rating 5 | effectiveness score = 10



Now from the above what do we conclude

1. SCI toon is effective in any ship
2. Cruiser is the most effective ship with any toon.
3. Escorts are squishy
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
11-27-2010, 09:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
Tacs are fine! it's engineers that are somewhat lacking i feel.
engineers are the best. they make science and escorts tough, while turning cruisers into mobile hospitals made of titanium bricks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
There are ways around SNB you know. it isn't the uber ability you might think it is if you know what to do.
The obvious one is to blow an RSP when you start getting alpha'd. Most sci pilots see the green glow and SNB straight away. That's when you whack a sci team and use your other tankinbg/healing abilities

and there, you are no longer SNB'd and still have a tank.

Although this method does involve your team to be awake, so good luck with that.
while you are correct in there being a cure to the +50% cooldown extension that SNB puts on your abilities for 30 seconds, there is nothing to give you back your 5 stack buffs while trying to alpha strike in an escort with a tactical captain. and 2 of those abilities have a 4 minnute cooldown, which effectively turns my alpha strike from being something that can rip shields and still dish out up to 20K damage before the end of a C:RF into a 15 second cooldown before i can use BA:O and C:RF, and nearly 2 minutes for me to get AP:A, and the other tactical abilities.

the only 2 abilities that remained in my alpha strike after a snb hit are fire on my mark(which is still good) and AP:B, but AP:B only lasts for 5 seconds after a snb hit.

i believe this may be the heart of the reason why so many people are moaning about snb. i find if i dont get hit with snb in an arena fight, my damage potential has at least another 150,000 added on top, and i have at least 3 more kills to my tally, knocking me from being top damager to being somewhere in the bottom. I dont like being in the bottom, and so i have taken my tactical out of the escort(with much sadness)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
11-27-2010, 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekkameron View Post
Don't forget carriers!

Science in carrier - High dps, high survival
Tactical in carrier - high dps medium/high survival
Engineer in a carrier - High dps, high survival

(just thought i'd add some petrol)
What is this high dps you speak of from carriers? Do you mean damage per second? I know they have high damage numbers at the end of a match, but that is spread out over the entire match, where they are doing low dps over long time uninterrupted. The people that actually do the killing do mega dps for short bursts... The guys running Tetryon are shortchanged on damage numbers... they should count shield damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
11-27-2010, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cedryk_
What is this high dps you speak of from carriers? Do you mean damage per second? I know they have high damage numbers at the end of a match, but that is spread out over the entire match, where they are doing low dps over long time uninterrupted. The people that actually do the killing do mega dps for short bursts... The guys running Tetryon are shortchanged on damage numbers... they should count shield damage.
30 seconds is not a short burst. i love how in my assault cruiser, once i apply my tactical abilities, each shot from my beam arrays deals a minimum for 1400 per shot. i especially love the 14K critical BA: O II through full shield facings.
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