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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-02-2010, 01:20 AM
Quote:
Get ready for crap. Get ready to make crap. I know I will. Send your fleet only mission links to me if you want, I'll play them, if I think they suck (I'm actually pretty forgiving), you'll at least have +1 play count.
I actually plan on playing a lot of "crap" missions or ones rated lower, if only to give the underdogs a fighting chance and/or suggest improvements in a review.

Heck, the first mission I made with the tools (to me) felt like crap. It was pretty but it was well... pretty crap. Gradually, everyone will learn and even crap missions need loving too, if only to encourage authors to improve.

Quote:
My last suggestion, lost on most. Writing a simple mission is not like fan fiction. Writing styles vary, any Game design tool like this is more like writing a Graphic novel or script, not a short story. I'm not a "tester" of the closed Foundry(beta), but from doing this in many games over the years, first launch will seem more like "story board" writing than anything else.
Storyboard is a great planning tool and will help regardless.

In fact, the interface works a lot like a storyboard. All the mission objectives are placed in chronological order. There are even arrows to show the flow of the story.

(=| click here to see dstahl's Foundry BETA screen |=)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-02-2010, 01:54 AM
Is it possible to have a "fork" in the story progression, based on what a player does? Essentially allowing a story to be completed in different ways, or with completely different endings?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-02-2010, 02:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mourne
Is it possible to have a "fork" in the story progression, based on what a player does? Essentially allowing a story to be completed in different ways, or with completely different endings?
It would be nice to talk about this but some people are under NDA for a day or two.

My advice is:

Get used to the idea of some severe limitations at first in some areas and some refreshingly, unexpectedly powerful control in a few others. The tool won't be complete even after it goes live and will be something the devs will probably update in major ways every season from here on out.

Keep expectations realistic but be ready for a nice foundation for the tool that will probably be a major part of all future updates, either basic improvements to bring the tool up to something that will allow you to create the kinds of missions the devs are creating now or utilizing the framework of the tool for things like custom interiors, starbases, etc.

I don't think you will ever see a major update that doesn't either imp[rove the Foundry somehow or use tech from the Foundry for something else.

My best advice: look at the missions STO had at launch. Start writing outlines and dialogue for missions like those. Don't look to the more advanced missions as a model at first. You can't go wrong doing that... and once you get the tool, maybe you'll figure out some of the tricks that the Beta testers have come up with to use the tools in clever or unintended ways.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-02-2010, 04:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterMiracle View Post
Yeah, unless your question is really code for 'I want to make X-rated RP content for me and my friends', you don't really have anything to worry about. If it is code for that, then this family game based on a family television show probably isn't the place for you to indulge in those particular activities.
No, hardly. (I actually find "erotic" stuff to be sort of silly in a game like this, tbh.) It was more RP content that I'd want to keep spoiler-free until such time as I want to drop it on my fleetmates (and without having to run it through some kind of review gauntlet during which everything would be spoiled), and since it's possible to do that, everything is good.

I'm still not quite convinced that there won't be problems with downvote griefing - this is the Internet, after all - but at least we'll be able to use the tool with a relative amount of freedom.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-02-2010, 06:09 AM
I understand the need for review and rating but I'm sure it will be skewed. Bob from Fleet Bob is going to throw a mission together. All 1000 people in his fleet are going to rate it 5 stars just so Bob can have the top ranked Foundry mission. Fleet Jane is going to be doing the same thing.

I just hope we can somewhat know what we're getting into before we pick a Foundry mission to play. Something more than, "This missions has been voted 5 stars". Going in blind, with no clue what to expect sounds like a bummer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-02-2010, 06:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckTrek
I understand the need for review and rating but I'm sure it will be skewed. Bob from Fleet Bob is going to throw a mission together. All 1000 people in his fleet are going to rate it 5 stars just so Bob can have the top ranked Foundry mission. Fleet Jane is going to be doing the same thing.

I just hope we can somewhat know what we're getting into before we pick a Foundry mission to play. Something more than, "This missions has been voted 5 stars". Going in blind, with no clue what to expect sounds like a bummer.
So join a fleet if you haven't already. I highly doubt fleets will become voting blocks though. That would require coordination and the management of egos that may not happen easily. Also, the sheer amount of fleets and freelancers make whatever effect a single fleet would have minimal. As the mission grew in rating due to the original fleet, more people would notice it and vote themselves. The problem corrects itself.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-02-2010, 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceDrake View Post
So I had some fleetmates tell me that every single Foundry mission has to pass a "peer review" before anyone can actually play it.

Is this... actually true? Is this how it's set up? I can't just make a mission for myself and my fleetmates, without having to put it out into the public?

If this is true... it's the most painfully boneheaded decision Cryptic's made with the game.

First, the more immediate problem. This makes it very hard to make content "just" for your own fleet/storylines/whatever. If you want to use the Foundry to make something that's really just for you and your friends, who'd understand what's going on immediately, then you still have to present it to the public who might not "get" it and may reject it out of hand. It'd make private(ish) content impossible.

More importantly however, if every mission has to pass "peer review" then the potential for griefing is so vast as to be profound. What, exactly, prevents me from pulling up a peer-review mission and simply rejecting it after playing because I can? How, exactly, would malicious rejection be handled? How could such a thing even be proven?

I'd like some confirmation on this, as "peer-review" for everything strikes me as so incredibly dunderheaded that I can't imagine that's really how the system works.
In an MMO, there is no such thing as "private" content. Everyone has access to everything.

Also, in order for rejection to be solely caused by griefing - not that you made a crappy mission - would mean that at least half of everyone who's peer reviewing - a whole lot of people - would reject it just to grief. I may not trust where this game is going, or trust UGC in general, but even I'm not so jaded as to believe that such a thing is possible.

Finally, if every mission is peer reviewed, that MIGHT mean we won't get just a crapton more crappy content, which would be totally different than just about every other MMO that featured UGC.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-02-2010, 07:25 AM
I'm glad its peer reviewed, otherwise we'd be swamped by garbage
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-02-2010, 10:05 AM
Its also always important to try to temper our 'Net Egotism.

Because the internet allows us to put our opinions out there for the 'whole world' to read, we sometimes allow ourselves to start thinking that the 'whole world' cares about our opinions. Likewise, we sometimes confuse posting a bunch on this message board, which again, the 'whole world' can read, with being famous.

I've said some snarky stuff on these boards and posted a fair amount. But I'm sure that 99.999999999999% of the STO player base, if you asked them about @MisterMiracle, would respond with, "Who?" There's probably a small handful of people who I've ticked off, and another tiny handful who I've said something they liked, and would actually remember my name. But even those two tiny groups probably don't care one way or the other enough to actively seek out and vote a mission I made up or down because of it.

If your mission has a low average rating, it is FAR FAR more likely that the mission needs work than it is that a mob of griefers is out to get you. None of us is really that important here that anyone's coming after us with pitchforks and torches.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-02-2010, 10:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceDrake View Post
Ahhhhhh, so when I publish a mission it'll be available to anyone right away so long as they search for it?

Perfect, then, that solves a number of "fleet-only" issues I had. So long as people can find it (and not get spoiled ahead of time having to "review" it ) then everything is solid.

I still remain concerned about the avenues for griefing with this system, however. It seems to me that there's no real dis-incentive to someone simply flagging or downvoting missions purely for the sake of being a jerk.
I'd just like to point out that in theory Wikipedia should be the biggest mess of lies and misinformation in the world but it's actually quite accurate. In fact it's SURPRISINGLY accurate on even very high science, or at least as high as a university education in engineering gets you. So hopefully that will give you a bit of faith.
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