Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 81
12-15-2010, 12:31 PM
Letís get something straight if you were terrible at pvp before you still will be terrible. All xp players will still have to use their resistant powers to survive. All these set do is allow for new play styles and I wish they had 12 not just 2.

Aegis is a strong def set, any ship that wears this set will be hard to kill. I think escort/raptors and BoP will love this set. Cov shields is what make this set shine plus reactive sequence special ability is what hardness to the shields.

Borg set: I did not like its stats from what I saw on paper. After playing some SV and Cruisers this looks to be a great set. I donít think it will fit escort but some BoP builds will like it. Secret:: I got a build that allows for a -109 energy drain to shields with tractor beam. The -9 doesnít do much but it still helps (good luck). The shield and hull heals are like mini TSS1 and HE1 with half the strength, it helps, but only over time. This is why u need a vessal with heavy hull. Another reason you need a heavy hull vessel is the reg shield array. On tribble it shows only a 15 plasma resist, I thought it was suppose to be 30%. I would rather have a regular shield array with x3 reg with 10% plasma res that would help this set.

I was lucky to get some pvp test in kerrat and have planned with a friend to test more pvp later. All these set do is a at a third dimension in a two dimensional world. It is not any better in most builds and the builds that benefit from this donít get much of it. I believe the only way to make this balance is adding more sets so other builds get the option, because it not just fair for a few =)


Ps by the way most people will be sporting these sets when they launch. But these sets donít complement all builds. So I bet we will see a lot of gimp builds at launch.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 82
12-15-2010, 04:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Last time I played my fed defiant (last night) it was still very very possible to remove a cruiser shield and half its hull in one shot. I would suggest that this might help people get over there mistaken notion that "DPS cruisers" where ever a practical team damage dealer. This is fine with me honestly. I will agree that we need some real pvp testing on these sets. From the limited one on one testing I have done with fleet mates fed ships on tribble my bop cannons killed them anyway, procs or not. I didn't test it but something tells me my escorts with cannons and BOL 3s popping off would have the same effect.

It does seem this will drag out matches for people with unbalanced teams of 4 cruisers... I don't think it will really hurt teams with 2 cruisers 2 escorts and a sci ship. Of course this is the kind of testing that always ends up getting done after things go live. If these sets equalize team builds, it could be a good change.
Yup, I agree with to a certain extent. (naturally, I am biased towards dps cruisers as it's all I've ever really wanted to do in game)

We may find that with a "Balanced" side as you see it , the two (low dps - heal/support) cruisers may do more harm than good for their teams if they both run say 7-8 beams, burst will be fine as it always is, but if the cruisers focus fire with the Bops/Raps/Escorts on the same target, the cruisers could cause more hindrance than assistance to the burst dealers - this is my concern.

As you say, it needs to be tested in proper PvP 1st, but unfortunately these things have a habit of going live without any real PvP acid test.

It may be an overreaction on my part, but from the limited testing I have done - it proccs too often to have a balanced match unless everybody has it on a level playing field.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 83
12-15-2010, 04:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lintyuk
Yup, I agree with to a certain extent. (naturally, I am biased towards dps cruisers as it's all I've ever really wanted to do in game)

We may find that with a "Balanced" side as you see it , the two (low dps - heal/support) cruisers may do more harm than good for their teams if they both run say 7-8 beams, burst will be fine as it always is, but if the cruisers focus fire with the Bops/Raps/Escorts on the same target, the cruisers could cause more hindrance than assistance to the burst dealers - this is my concern.

As you say, it needs to be tested in proper PvP 1st, but unfortunately these things have a habit of going live without any real PvP acid test.

It may be an overreaction on my part, but from the limited testing I have done - it proccs too often to have a balanced match unless everybody has it on a level playing field.
Its true who know for sure till we have been pvping with them for a few weeks. The first week or so won't count as people adjust builds.

In my view having anyone on the team designated as only being a healer will be a hinderance... and this is a good thing really. STO needs to get away from rock paper dps cruiser stuff. lol
Really I don't believe having a dedicated healer on a team is a good idea... but thats just me.
Why when balancing a build to be able to heal 80% as well isn't that hard. After playing around with the Klink version of the star cruiser I have no idea why more feds don't dump there healing commander slots for dmg... a team with a couple balanced cruisers that can burst / disable and still heal 80% as well would be ideal. Of course who knows its all theory right now and perhaps these sets won't have the major impact we both seem to think they will.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 84
12-15-2010, 05:29 PM
Well i still want to get the Aegis or more specifically Borg gear. I like that they're adding things that change how your ship looks by equipping it. Plus the set bonus' are a plus. Does any one know when they'll be hitting Holodeck again?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 85
12-16-2010, 02:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Its true who know for sure till we have been pvping with them for a few weeks. The first week or so won't count as people adjust builds.

In my view having anyone on the team designated as only being a healer will be a hinderance... and this is a good thing really. STO needs to get away from rock paper dps cruiser stuff. lol
Really I don't believe having a dedicated healer on a team is a good idea... but thats just me.
Why when balancing a build to be able to heal 80% as well isn't that hard. After playing around with the Klink version of the star cruiser I have no idea why more feds don't dump there healing commander slots for dmg... a team with a couple balanced cruisers that can burst / disable and still heal 80% as well would be ideal. Of course who knows its all theory right now and perhaps these sets won't have the major impact we both seem to think they will.
Yup, I agree with most of what you say here except for the dedicated healer.

When you are waiting for 5 things you cannot see, to suddenly appear and unload on a single target - that is where a dedicated healer comes into his own to try and level the playing field, but we are bound to see things from different sides of the fence on that subject

Hit me up for an Infected run haha...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 86
12-16-2010, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lintyuk
Yup, I agree with most of what you say here except for the dedicated healer.

When you are waiting for 5 things you cannot see, to suddenly appear and unload on a single target - that is where a dedicated healer comes into his own to try and level the playing field, but we are bound to see things from different sides of the fence on that subject

Hit me up for an Infected run haha...
It seems to me that the resists from Extend, HE, TSS and so on are far better counters than a ton of healing.. Ive noticed when flying my healer, I dont have much to do in many matches.. If a team had say 3 DPS cruisers, and a SC specced for DPS (with the switch BOs having the pure healing stuff) and a Sci - Each DPS cruiser carried say : 1 Extend1 - 1 ET2 - 1 TSS - 1 HE and the SC had a "little more" 1 extend, 1 ET2, 1 ET3, 2 TSS, 1 HE and A2SIF3 (would leave 2 Ensignslots, 1 LtC slots for offensive skills like for EP2W and DEM)

Basically every ship would be able to add resists, and atleast 1 high heal to a focus target.. Instead of having 1 HUGE healer and no other heals to speak off, youd have one decent, and 3-4 basic healing ships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 87
12-16-2010, 03:42 AM
A fine point, however when playing FvK, the Klingons decide whom to hit 1st and when, so burst heals to counter burst damage on the initial exchange is necessary.

No point in stacking resists on a player that may not be attacked.

For FvF I see the merit in what you are saying Meline.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 88
12-16-2010, 03:47 AM
Hardening against alpha strikes is important, but with the cooldowns of the ally-hardenings, it can be difficult to time it correctly (or it can be easy to hit in the gaps for cloaked attackers). At that point, the resistance you can grant might come too late if you don't also give some large heals.

Edit: Or what Lintyuk the posting-ninja said.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 89
12-16-2010, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lintyuk
Hit me up for an Infected run haha...
I might take you up on that... I got 8 damn toons to feed. LOL
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 90
12-16-2010, 04:04 AM
What my main point was about the "super dedicated" healer... was this. Is that focus target going to die if he gets hit with 2 Engi Team 2s... Mine are over 10k I don't see how a 20k spike of healing along with a hazards for some resist... and the targets own Polarized TSS and EPTS isn't going to get them through.

This would leave those 2-4 cruisers with Engi Team 2 free to run... Warp Plasma 1 Dem 2 Emergency to Waap 3... Boarding Party 2... You get the point... Loading dual Engi Team 3s gives you a slightly better spike heal at a HUGE expense to doing damage. I still don't get the idea of removing team members from the DPS pool. I won't even get started on how dumb I think it is to slot Aux to Sif 3, or EPTS 3 on an engi.

Of course with the current state of 15 sec down time on dual engi teams (and the lack of skills making it the only option on any cruiser) ... its hard to argue the power of burst healing. It outstrips damage right now, top that with all the resist skills we can all chuck around... I can understand the lack of escorts.

I don't know after testing the changes to the sets today... I would say the impact they are going to have won't be insane... I think it will be changes made by snix at some point in the future that will end the resist / spike heal nonsense we have at the moment.
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