Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 161
12-07-2010, 09:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
I keep seeing this assertion being made with absolutely no support. Open Faction Based PvP is like any other aspect of a game, it's all in the implementation. Done well, it will be popular. Done poorly, it won't. To make such a predictive statement without even the basic details of implementation is specious.
Several years ago Scott Jennings put forward the 20%/80% "law" which states that of the population of any given MMORPG 20% of players will do well in PvP. That 20% essentially shuts out that other 80% from PvP through domination. Then, of that 20% another 80% are shut out in a continuing cycle until a minor portion of a population remains interested in PvP. This "formula" is generally accepted by most developers and has never been proven to be false.

You can take it or leave it but the number still stands. There is support. You just haven't looked for it. If you want to get the appropriate degree in sociology and challenge this number, please do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 162
12-08-2010, 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayenn
You can take it or leave it but the number still stands. There is support. You just haven't looked for it. If you want to get the appropriate degree in sociology and challenge this number, please do.
You are right. I haven't looked for it. Generally, in discussion, the onus for providing support falls upon the individual making the assertion. It saves the rest of us from searching for something that may or may not exist.

Additionally, your initial statement was that a very small number would play in that yet to be defined environment. Your unverified support states that it would begin at 20%. I think 20% is significantly large enough to warrant attention if, it would otherwise be lost.

Of course, none of that addresses the fact that the initial comment fails, as it makes a prediction on a yet to be defined scenario.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 163
12-08-2010, 12:38 AM
Although I dont agree with your post I am intrested in venturing into enemy territory
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 164
12-08-2010, 01:10 AM
STO has plenty of players who enjoy it. Some play it constantly, others off and on. I know people who have played WoW off and on for years. They come back to it, play a few weeks and then leave again. Then there are people who can play the same game forever and never tire. My buddy played CoD until CoD2 came out, then played that for three freaking years.

You know what game had trouble keeping players, APB. I don't actually have any statistics for that, but I think its a good staple for the 'failed MMO mold'. (I understand it was bought and is supposed to reopen, but like New Coke, people WILL remember).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 165
12-08-2010, 06:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
I think 20% is significantly large enough to warrant attention if, it would otherwise be lost.
A declining 20% is not significant enough, especially since it is a declining 20% and not a stable 20%. If it were stable I could see putting it on the development list ins, say, three years, after more pressing issues have been addressed and far more desirable features have been added.

It is prudent for a service based business to serve the largest number of players in any given plan because losing the larger and more significant number would lead to disastrous consequences. Alienating 80% of the STO player base is just a stupid move Cryptic is not going to make. They cannot afford to lose that many subscribers. By confirmed counts that would mean the potential loss of 88,000 subs. That's a loss of around 1.3 million of income. The level of business ineptness that would represent is astounding!


The numbers and evidence is there and accepted. This means STO will never go in the direction of open PvP. There is a very very very slim chance they will put together a single zone but that will not come around for a long while. If they still plan on dropping the zone walls it just wont happen.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 166
12-08-2010, 06:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyomoto View Post
You know what game had trouble keeping players, APB. I don't actually have any statistics for that, but I think its a good staple for the 'failed MMO mold'. (I understand it was bought and is supposed to reopen, but like New Coke, people WILL remember).
APB did have trouble but its fate was fixed before the game ever launched. It needed to gain more subscribers that was even possible for the type of game it was. It was essentially set up for failure, inadvertently.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 167
12-08-2010, 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
You are right. I haven't looked for it. Generally, in discussion, the onus for providing support falls upon the individual making the assertion. It saves the rest of us from searching for something that may or may not exist.

Additionally, your initial statement was that a very small number would play in that yet to be defined environment. Your unverified support states that it would begin at 20%. I think 20% is significantly large enough to warrant attention if, it would otherwise be lost.

Of course, none of that addresses the fact that the initial comment fails, as it makes a prediction on a yet to be defined scenario.
Just to serve as an example. I have no interest in this type of play and despite any additions to the game along this style of play I will not take part in it. I don't like it. I can't stand certain foods. It doesn't matter how attractive you make them look on the plate, I still won't eat them. Its really very simple. However, I will throw it out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 168
12-08-2010, 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayenn
A declining 20% is not significant enough, especially since it is a declining 20% and not a stable 20%.
Repeating a flawed premise does not validate it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 169
12-08-2010, 11:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SapphicZoid
Just to serve as an example. I have no interest in this type of play and despite any additions to the game along this style of play I will not take part in it. I don't like it. I can't stand certain foods. It doesn't matter how attractive you make them look on the plate, I still won't eat them. Its really very simple. However, I will throw it out.
And to serve as another example. I've already canceled my renewal. If, when my 6 month subscription runs out in May, there has been no progress on this issue, the game will throw me out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 170
12-08-2010, 11:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roxbad
And to serve as another example. I've already canceled my renewal. If, when my 6 month subscription runs out in May, there has been no progress on this issue, the game will throw me out.
Welcome to the dwindling 20% catagory. Best wishes to you wherever you end up.
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