Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 31
12-04-2010, 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zehra
So many wow players looking back through rose colored glasses. Pre-BC "endgame" was terrible. There was nothing to do, there was no good source of money, etc. I think STO is in a better position now than WoW was at the same age.
Absolutely, positively, without a doubt. Star Trek Online is WAY more enjoyable than World of ******** was in it's first year. Since I already knew all of the content from Closed Beta, Open Beta, and Stress Test, I was exploring the Endgame content (what a joke) by the end of my second month (2 60s and 1 40 by that point) and was quickly becoming bored, frustrated, and disenchanted by the whole experience.

It took a while for them to put out some patches that made the game worth playing, and then came 2.0... the patch that nearly caused me to quit. I had just started playing a hunter and was beginning to raid with it and I was the main DPS for my group, and BAM... DPS was literally cut in half for hunters in the 2.0 patch. (Dex originally gave 2 Ranged Attack Power per point, but was reduced to a 1-for-1 scale, which really hurt a lot of hunters who relied on their absurdly high dex to down things quickly.)

And don't even get me started on Warlocks! One of the most powerful classes now, but in the early days of WoW they were the most pathetically weak class in the game.

Classes were horribly unbalanced, the PvP was (and still is) a joke, and the Windows version of the game client even comes with their own EULA-protected Spyware! Blizzard to this day refuses to even answer the simplest questions about Warden, like what data it sends to them or if that data is even encrypted. People have been banned just for browsing the wrong websites while playing WoW.

I'm sorry, but that's complete B.S. I read a lot of websites that feature information on different scam methods so that I know what the scammers are doing. If I know the con, I know what to look for, and thus I will not end up being a victim of the scam.. but I had to make sure that I never opened any of those sites while actually playing WoW for fear of receiving a ban just for clicking the wrong link.

If the players want to see something added to WoW, they can post on the forums all they want.. it won't make a difference, meanwhile a lot of the major changes to come about in STO have come from a handful of players saying "Hey! Wouldn't it be cool if.. ?"

I can afford three MMOs per month on my current budget, and instead of giving another penny to Blizzard, I play STO and -two- Dark Age of Camelot accounts for when I need my Fantasy MMO Fix. (You can run two copies of the game at once, so I have a caster and a "blockbot" that follows my caster around and blocks attacks for me in PVE so my attacks don't get interrupted.. which is okay by the **** EULA. )
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 32
12-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Please, please don't compare STO to WoW...
I came to STO after pushing out many geared out 80's in WoW.

WoW is a grinding game. Or 'Power Leveling' game as some call it. You grind to max level. Then you grind for gear. Your primary focus is ALWAYS gear. It's not the ganking parties, it's not looking forward to content lore, it's not exploring the instances. It's gear you're there for.
And then once you finally cuss out other people in PUGs, belittle new players that don't know the 'class rules', macros and rolls, and the multitude of ICC infighting, you finally cap your gear, gems and 'chants. And sit around in Dalaran with friends not really doing much of anything anymore, or you become belligerent and start hissing, spitting and cussing at each other.. until someone not involved comes along then you all band together to bully them. Then turn back on each other when it's no longer fun.
I was even starting to become that very thing I despised in the end and decided it was time to stop playing.

In the few months I've been playing STO, I've seen very, very little of that behavior. I don't know much about the Forum community, but at least ingame... And when someone like that does crop up in Zone, they're usually shunned and ignored quite quickly and leave on their own when they're not getting the attention they wanted. And the conversations usually return to talking about the games expansion, the series lore, even non Trek related things, but in good nature.
Maybe that is because the community is so small because people keep leaving. If that's the case, I hope it stays that way.

I know this is all just some random chicks opinion, but it's truly how I feel about the two.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
12-04-2010, 01:53 PM
Just as an aside- The System requirements alone will make sure STO will never match the numbers of WOW.
Which is a good thing IMHO. It keeps most of the kiddies out.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 34
12-04-2010, 01:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armsman View Post
Interesting as World of ******** also had similar flaws in it's first 10 months online - yet grew to a multi-millio n player subscriber base within 3 years. As content and new dfeatures are added; retention will increase, the same as any MMO with a good foundation. And STO has a good foundation.
Yes, STO has a strong foundation, but Cryptic needs to address these flaws in order to increase the subscriber base.

Socializing is easy when they start evolve the game out of single-player into a team play without making it mandatory like with the STFs or in PvP. But the thing that Cryptic has to do is enhance the war between the Klingons and the Federation with all kinds of possibliities and consequences, no more of this "loser trophy" mentality where the winners end up the same as the losers.

I'm betting once they do that, the game will be a whole-lot better.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 35
12-04-2010, 01:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanagrah
Star Trek lends itself far more to PvP than PvE and if you can not recall a Single episode that would lend itself to PvP then you clearly have not watched much trek.
Ah, like the classic episode where the Enterprise had a showdown with a screeching 13 year old Klingon general named "D0CT0RBUTTZ420", who was determined to destroy Kirk and crouch repeatedly on his face, in order to compensate for his . . . male inadequacies?

Also: I RP and I never have to do anything alone ever.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 36
12-04-2010, 02:09 PM
I have jsut returned back to STO, been playng COh and *** for a bit, and im enjoying playing the game again i never got a char maxed to top level as happy taking my timne and enjoying the game, as its still quite trek immersive its good and the stories and the like are good. granted exploartion missions are a bit repetitive but then arnt all mmos in one way or another repetitve. I stoppped playing WOW long time ago and i never bothered getting a high level toon there either. In STO im happy making my own way through space at my own pace and jsut taking waht comes my way. Im not one for farming or the like i just enjoy the immersion and the stories

Pvp , no interest in that so not really worried about getting the best gear and uber spec stuff to fight other folks with. Ill do as i always do in MMOS , make do with waht comes my way by quest , drops or just what ever teh game decides to giive me.

Im glad STO is a slower paced game then some mmos out there, as its a big universe (supposdly) and well i want it to immerse me and give me that feeling of hugeness. From what i see STO seems to be gaining ground more then loseing it, i thikn more are returning to STO as its there in the background and well its coming along nicely. In time im sure the devs will accomidate all the players and thier requests, jsut takes time.

Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 37
12-04-2010, 02:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander_X View Post
Ah, like the classic episode where the Enterprise had a showdown with a screeching 13 year old Klingon general named "D0CT0RBUTTZ420", who was determined to destroy Kirk and crouch repeatedly on his face, in order to compensate for his . . . male inadequacies?

Also: I RP and I never have to do anything alone ever.
You owe me one screen cleaning wipe to replace the one I had to use to clean the combination of snot and coffee off of my laptop's LCD from snarfing my coffee all over it.

Seriously.. these forums have never made me laugh out loud, much less use a liquid as a projectile to target the offending funny string of words.

You win 1,000 internets.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 38
12-04-2010, 02:20 PM
It's all going to come, Cryptic are obviously aiming to get us everything the majority and sometimes the minority want.

Good time to come back which many are doing, STO is not losing players, there are more on now especially with Season 3 coming soon and the holiday.

Have you done the new episodes?

All STF missions?

Could you possibly improve your ship setup to be a top killer in pvp?

How about spending sometime on Foundry and making the missions you want, I enjoyed having a go on Tribble and Klingon lovers should get stuck in.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 39
12-04-2010, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanagrah
People keep saying "wow was dreadful on launch and is only what it is today because of 6 years developing"

Utter rubbish!. Wow on release was immense, much better than the tripe that it is today, which is why I no longer even have the game installed and will never return to it. But I don't want to discuss WOW, I want to discuss why STO has literally NO end game content, no PvP worth mentioning and a very low subscription number.

It is crying out for a faction based PvP zone and like I said in my original post, if you don't like PvP don't come into the zone, but don't tell anyone else that we can't have a PvP zone, thats being selfish and narrow minded. Star Trek lends itself far more to PvP than PvE and if you can not recall a Single episode that would lend itself to PvP then you clearly have not watched much trek. Besides, this is a game and it needs a lot of action or it becomes very boring (which it is now).

Someone mentioned that Cryptic are looking into PvP areas, great stuff, thanks for the info, they know it makes sense.

And anyone that thinks this game is not boring end game, please list me all the end game activities that you get up to day in day out.

As someone who actually played WoW on it release, it was the following:

- Bugged

- No real endgame (and Onyxia which WAS the only true endgame content wasn't working right at launch)

- No PvP (and Blizzard had mad a point of saying WoW WOULD launch with PvP and got lambasted on their forums for NOT having it in at launch.)

- People asked where the other content was because Black Rock Spire didn't do it for all those who rushed to max level at launch.

Hell, 5 months out MANY articles were STILL questioning if the mighty and popular Blizzard had screwed the pooch with WoW; and if the game would still be online one year out as Blizzzard probably would tollerate support a failure, etc.

So, sorry, can't agree with your post above. WoW launched pretty much like EVERY MMO since EQ has; and was not the 'instant success' players who weren;t around for its actual somewhat rocky launch (or those whose lenses have become a bit 'rose-colored' with the passage of tikme.

To this day though, WoW is considered an anomoly in the MMO world. ANY MMO is a subscription failure (including eastern MMOs like Liniage which was the most popular MMO numbers wise (2 million), prior to WoW breaking the 3 million mark. Butr make no mistake WoW had a NUMBER of long running bugs (the old 'Loot Bug' where looting sometimes locked down your character for 2+ minutes while MOBs that happened to wander by could still attack and kill you - was STILL in game during my WoW heyday (late 2004 - 2007)); and hell some recent WoW patches have caused major server issues for WEEKS just recently (my Guild spawns many MMOs and still has a sizable WoW playerbase.)

So, again, even WoW had a rocky start and growing pains; and has had 6 years (and more money then ANY other MMO avcailable to it for continued development); and in fact has been becoming more casual based with every patch and paid Expansion (you'll NEVER see another 40 man instance - which was the NORM for endgame raiding in my heyday.)

Will STO ever get close to WoW's sub numbers? No. (And hell, with what I read of later, neither will SW:TOR for that matter.) But, remember, this MMO was not designed to compete with WoW (with 1/10 of WoW's development budget and 18 months initial development time, there's no way it could, and Cryptic and CBS realized this); but as of right now, it's doing well enough to sustin it's development team and costs AND still turning a profit for Cryptic/Atari; and that's all it has to do to remain open and online. Personally, I think it's a better game then WoW was at 10 months, and the Dev team shows no sign of slowing down (which is a good thing.)

Sub turnover and MMO jumpting around is the NORM for this imndustry. We who post and debate on forums like this are a MINORITY ofthe playerbase. the majority rarely even visit the game forums; and if they do, it's usually to fimnd out if there's an outage. Also, in general, most feedback on Forums like this regarding ANY MMO (including WoW) is prmarily negative (Hell, go take a klook at the WoW forums and you'll see posts stating "The glory days are over, with change 'X' Blizzard will KILL this game.."; etc <--- yes, even on a game with 13+ million subs, you have people who believe WoW is doomed because something they love got nerfed.)

In the end though, the oly thing that can be said of STO (as far as Cryptic/Atari is concerned) is that it mustr be doing better then their other MMO Champions Online (which I also subscribe to) because:

- STO (at this time) isn't switching to an F2P model.
and
- The STO Dev team is churning out good content and feature additions to STO at about 3 times the speed of the CO Dev team (most likely meaning that they are pulling in enough to support a larger development team than CO atm.)

I think if STO was doing as poorly as some people suggest, it would have had a F2P announcement at the same time as CO; and we wouldn't see the amount of feature and content additions we have (including the 2 featured episode series - with more on the way.) It's all the CO team can do right now to get the F2P aspect of CO up and runnig, while here on STO; they are doing MAJOR re-workings of core features (sector space and crafting) while ALSO working on the Foundry UGC tools (which I would say is as complicated, if not moreso, then slapping an F2P scheme on an existing MMO.)

All this couldn't be accomplished if STO weren't bringing in enough revenue for it; and if you believe CBS is somehow bankrolling behind the scenes, I doubt it, as CBS had no issues with letting Perpetual go bankrupt during the development process; and as a result put a hard launch date that a new licensee (which eventually was Cryptic) had to prove to CBS that they could make to AVOID another Perpetual debacle.)

So, (for me) all te above is evidence that STO isn't the major disaster/failure some would lie or have you believe. Might all this change down the road? Yep, especially with the U.S. economy in the state it's in; but for right now, I think STO is doing well enough, and with all the work being put into it, is improving and expanding in positive directions with each update.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 40
12-04-2010, 03:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanagrah
Star Trek lends itself far more to PvP than PvE and if you can not recall a Single episode that would lend itself to PvP then you clearly have not watched much trek.
Name one episode.

Sweeping generalizations are easy. Clearly, you can recall multiple episodes that are akin to PVP. Name them.

Are you thinking, maybe, of Arena? Sorry, no hand-to-hand combat in this game. And neither Kirk nor the gorn had 'personal shields' or 'battle armor' or a 'kit' that gave them various abilities to deploy. And the plot wasn't resolved by a slugfest, Kirk ran around the planet harvesting and crafting. Sounds like a PVE episode to me.

So, which episodes were there that revolved around a handful of ships or crewmen on each side being thrown into a sealed off area and fighting to the death?
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