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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-06-2010, 06:17 AM
I don't agree with the OP on most of his post, but from my PUG point-of-view:

Weapons
Torpedoes: plasma and transphasic have 'issues', shield healing severely punishes torpedoes.
Mines: chroniton mines are good, tricobalt are insane, the rest are terrible.
Beams: are supposed to be utility, but BO3 is a stupidly powerful spike ability.
Cannons: the DC/DHC split is useless, no ensign level abilities.

Ship classes
Escort/Raptor: are truly excellent ships.
Cruisers (defensive): are too good at being purely defensive.
Cruisers (offensive): are almost entirely a waste of space, I just ignore them [fed cruisers anyway]. I might be missing something, but that's what I do and it seems to work very well.
Bop: /shrug don't fly one, don't see much wrong.
Science: /shrug don't fly one, don't see much wrong - except they really annoy me .
Carriers: too much spam, probably suffer from the 'too good at being purely defensive' syndrome.

Suggested changes
- fix plasma/transphasic torpedoes 'somehow'. Give torpedoes a damage bonus when shields are low, or when the target shield was recently down.
- remove tricobalt mines stun and double deployment rate, halve chroniton mines deployment rate.
- nerf BO3, or make it do something other than pure-dps (it's stupid to see escorts with a beam just to exploit this ability). Removing the power drain may be appropriate.
- restrict battle-cruisers to DHC cannons (not DC). DHC cannons given a bonus against large ships, and a penalty against smaller ships.
- beam arrays given a similar bonus/nerf.
- DC cannons/DBB cannons given a bonus against smaller ships, and a slight nerf against larger ships.
- carrier spam reduced, individual ships improved.
- marauder spam reduced if it's an issue (they don't seem particularly great at actually doing anything), and/or make the fighters desummon after a short time (currently they stay until out of combat - change that to a fixed timer if necessary).
- the varanus is spectacularly unpopular, but halving the number of pets and doubling the rather tragic healing seems fine.
- add a non-sucky TAC/ensign skill for those of us stuck with 3 TAC/ensign slots...
- give all defensive/healing abilities an AUX power drain (maintained abilities have a maintained drain), make weapons power somehow tied to defensive [or healing] abilities (25 weapons power should not be without severe downsides).
- re-think allowing heals to cure debuffs, specifically engineering team.
- take a look at skill trees, specifically the ability to 'just' take space/ground and the ability to over-specialize in just defensive abilities.
- give the federation a turret deployer or something.

Class-specific
- remove the 3 class-specific ship summoning abilities from PvP. (fleet support or whatever they're called - everyone summoning a ship is not a great idea).
- tone down SNB from being the ultimate debuff (the engineering/tac alternatives to this don't really compare to the game-changing nature of snb).

Game-type specific
- take arena out and shoot it, replace it with something which does not entirely focus on dps.
- if you can't do that (your gun jams) switch arena to C&H style spawns with a self-destruct timer for staying inside the spawn, or let us pick which spawn to use (like BFBC2 etc where you can see the spawn during selection).
- on the scoreboard add 'ship type', 'level' and 'class'. Klingons work this out before the battle, Feds don't really have that luxury.
- increase the size of the 'ship' field in the examine dialog (currently it often says 'advanced ....' - missing out the important bit!).
- implement an asymmetrical map type that focuses on the strengths/weaknesses of the 2 sides.

Random notes
- when the Nausicaan vessel arrives it seems that half (5 of 10) the available klingon ship types will not have a cloaking ability.
- there's a lot of good ideas in STO that haven't turned out the way you would expect. None of this is a criticism of those ideas.
- binding every ability you have to one button and spamming it is often not a bad idea. This should be an area of extreme concern. (too many buttons, and too many are chain-able and/or have no downside to activating them at the wrong time - especially in frantic pvp).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-06-2010, 06:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
Really? The telltale sign of a haz emit beam wave not a good enough indicator of where that cloaked ship is for you to shockwave or CPB out in the open?

This is my exact same method to figure out where the cloaked defiants are, especially when that nebula activates their tach beam grid (lol hai sisko, surprise!)
I fly a Defiant, so I dont have shockwave or CPB (and yes, this hurts me as well)

I just think it logical that directing energy from one ship to another should disable the cloak
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-06-2010, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter
I don't agree with the OP on most of his post, but from my PUG point-of-view:

Weapons
Torpedoes: plasma and transphasic have 'issues', shield healing severely punishes torpedoes. - Intended I think
Mines: chroniton mines are good, tricobalt are insane, the rest are terrible. - I dunno.. Ive had a bunch of quantum mines impact on the hull for 1500-2000 per mine
Beams: are supposed to be utility, but BO3 is a stupidly powerful spike ability. - Indeed, but also very dependant on criticals, and you *do* have a severe powerdrop
Cannons: the DC/DHC split is useless, no ensign level abilities.

Ship classes
Escort/Raptor: are truly excellent ships.
Cruisers (defensive): are too good at being purely defensive.
Cruisers (offensive): are almost entirely a waste of space, I just ignore them [fed cruisers anyway]. I might be missing something, but that's what I do and it seems to work very well. - It might be because there is few really good DPS cruisers.. You *dont* want to ignore them when theyre around
Bop: /shrug don't fly one, don't see much wrong.
Science: /shrug don't fly one, don't see much wrong - except they really annoy me .
Carriers: too much spam, probably suffer from the 'too good at being purely defensive' syndrome.

Suggested changes
- fix plasma/transphasic torpedoes 'somehow'. Give torpedoes a damage bonus when shields are low, or when the target shield was recently down.
- remove tricobalt mines stun and double deployment rate, halve chroniton mines deployment rate.
- nerf BO3, or make it do something other than pure-dps (it's stupid to see escorts with a beam just to exploit this ability). Removing the power drain may be appropriate.
- restrict battle-cruisers to DHC cannons (not DC). DHC cannons given a bonus against large ships, and a penalty against smaller ships.
- beam arrays given a similar bonus/nerf.
- DC cannons/DBB cannons given a bonus against smaller ships, and a slight nerf against larger ships.
- carrier spam reduced, individual ships improved.
- marauder spam reduced if it's an issue (they don't seem particularly great at actually doing anything), and/or make the fighters desummon after a short time (currently they stay until out of combat - change that to a fixed timer if necessary).
- the varanus is spectacularly unpopular, but halving the number of pets and doubling the rather tragic healing seems fine.
- add a non-sucky TAC/ensign skill for those of us stuck with 3 TAC/ensign slots...
- give all defensive/healing abilities an AUX power drain (maintained abilities have a maintained drain), make weapons power somehow tied to defensive [or healing] abilities (25 weapons power should not be without severe downsides).
- re-think allowing heals to cure debuffs, specifically engineering team.
- take a look at skill trees, specifically the ability to 'just' take space/ground and the ability to over-specialize in just defensive abilities.
- give the federation a turret deployer or something.

Class-specific
- remove the 3 class-specific ship summoning abilities from PvP. (fleet support or whatever they're called - everyone summoning a ship is not a great idea).
- tone down SNB from being the ultimate debuff (the engineering/tac alternatives to this don't really compare to the game-changing nature of snb).

Game-type specific
- take arena out and shoot it, replace it with something which does not entirely focus on dps. I enjoy Arenas, dont replace it, but add something different
- if you can't do that (your gun jams) switch arena to C&H style spawns with a self-destruct timer for staying inside the spawn, or let us pick which spawn to use (like BFBC2 etc where you can see the spawn during selection).
- on the scoreboard add 'ship type', 'level' and 'class'. Klingons work this out before the battle, Feds don't really have that luxury.
- increase the size of the 'ship' field in the examine dialog (currently it often says 'advanced ....' - missing out the important bit!).
- implement an asymmetrical map type that focuses on the strengths/weaknesses of the 2 sides.

Random notes
- when the Nausicaan vessel arrives it seems that half (5 of 10) the available klingon ship types will not have a cloaking ability.
- there's a lot of good ideas in STO that haven't turned out the way you would expect. None of this is a criticism of those ideas.
- binding every ability you have to one button and spamming it is often not a bad idea. This should be an area of extreme concern. (too many buttons, and too many are chain-able and/or have no downside to activating them at the wrong time - especially in frantic pvp).
..........
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-06-2010, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
I fly a Defiant, so I dont have shockwave or CPB (and yes, this hurts me as well)

I just think it logical that directing energy from one ship to another should disable the cloak
Then fly close to it to see it. Prime BO3 and then shoot it the moment you see it, it won't have shields and 1 crit is all you need. Particularly if it's a BoP. It doesn't auto decloak us if someone's attacking us. Just a tip.

And going by that logic, I think it's logical that any buff such as sending engineering teams or science teams over to the other ship should drop their shields AND your shields momentarily. You're sending your teams over to the other guy, so it's only canon that your shields and their shields drop while beaming the personnel onboard. Wonder what the feddies will think of that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-06-2010, 07:37 AM
Or Boarding parties, plus boarding parties should not work while the enemies shields are up as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
12-06-2010, 07:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Torpedoes: plasma and transphasic have 'issues', shield healing severely punishes torpedoes. - Intended I think
I think it's intended, but too black & white for me - "balance shields" spam being rather overpowered I guess. I'd prefer a 'grey zone' where the torpedo does more damage (e.g. at 10% shield, the torpedo does a bit more damage, at 5% a bit more than that, and at 0% it does full damage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Mines: chroniton mines are good, tricobalt are insane, the rest are terrible. - I dunno.. Ive had a bunch of quantum mines impact on the hull for 1500-2000 per mine
Whilst true, if I were going to drop mines it would be chroniton or tricobalt - dealing damage only when you're opponents shields are down is very limiting. (I'd rather the other mines were left alone - mine spam is not something I want to encourage!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Beams: are supposed to be utility, but BO3 is a stupidly powerful spike ability. - Indeed, but also very dependant on criticals, and you *do* have a severe powerdrop.
That's true, I still don't think it's appropriate for the ultimate (shield?) spike to be a beam ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Cruisers (offensive): are almost entirely a waste of space, I just ignore them [fed cruisers anyway]. I might be missing something, but that's what I do and it seems to work very well. - It might be because there is few really good DPS cruisers.. You *dont* want to ignore them when theyre around
That's probably true... But given a science ship, an escort and a dps cruiser - the escort *will* kill me in seconds, the science ship will let everyone else kill me in seconds, the dps cruiser might kill me... If the dps cruiser were any other ship it would be more valuable from my point of view.

My suggestion was to make DPS cruisers more dangerous against big ships (I love the idea of tall ship battles), whilst making them not pwn escorts. (it seems like dps cruisers are a solution in search of a problem, whilst heavily defensive healbots are a problem in search of a solution).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
12-06-2010, 08:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splutter

That's true, I still don't think it's appropriate for the ultimate (shield?) spike to be a beam ability.

Quote:
Beams are the only "insta-damage" weapon we have.. Wouldnt make sense for cannons to spike like beams do.. Besides, it would make beams redundant on escorts (except for the odd DBB wielding escort)
That's probably true... But given a science ship, an escort and a dps cruiser - the escort *will* kill me in seconds, the science ship will let everyone else kill me in seconds, the dps cruiser might kill me... If the dps cruiser were any other ship it would be more valuable from my point of view.

Quote:
I can say this: Tactical captain, Alpha3, Beta1, EP2W3, DEM3, 8 beams and FAW1 and I took out my share of BOPs and Escorts.. One BOP flown by a fleetmate (good escort pilot) in a 1v1 test, consistently lost his front shield and 50% hull without chewing though my shield.

Sure, they cannot do those ultraspikes a Escort can, but they *can* remain in a battlearea far longer.
My suggestion was to make DPS cruisers more dangerous against big ships (I love the idea of tall ship battles), whilst making them not pwn escorts. (it seems like dps cruisers are a solution in search of a problem, whilst heavily defensive healbots are a problem in search of a solution).
Several fleets field DPS cruisers that consistently match or surpass escorts in damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
12-06-2010, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
Then fly close to it to see it. Prime BO3 and then shoot it the moment you see it, it won't have shields and 1 crit is all you need. Particularly if it's a BoP. It doesn't auto decloak us if someone's attacking us. Just a tip.

And going by that logic, I think it's logical that any buff such as sending engineering teams or science teams over to the other ship should drop their shields AND your shields momentarily. You're sending your teams over to the other guy, so it's only canon that your shields and their shields drop while beaming the personnel onboard. Wonder what the feddies will think of that.
Hmm.. Interesting thought.. Youre right ofcourse, it would be logical.. And it might just be the answer we need to the healstacking problem.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
12-06-2010, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MelineAaele View Post
Hmm.. Interesting thought.. Youre right ofcourse, it would be logical.. And it might just be the answer we need to the healstacking problem.
mwahahaha I think we see eye to eye here

Always wondered why "X" teams can be self heals or target heals/buffs.

Anyways, even if that idea might be far too left field for current game mechanics, I remember ships having finite space. It doesn't make any sense for 3-4 cruisers to "beam over" their elite engineering teams (ET3) to one escort and have them all be effective.

You might have the personnel to beam over, but that escort only holds 150 people and only have so much space. How many engineers does it take to replace a broken light bulb in a 10x10 cell?

Have an engineering team beam over to repair stuff, then once they're on their own ship again, you can beam down another set of engineers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
12-06-2010, 08:41 AM
Want to balance PvP? Do something about the emblem miners that show up and don't play. Force the Feds to actually use teamwork. Give escorts the same turn rate as BoPs.
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