Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-06-2010, 08:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadeComplete
It isn't my idea...
I know, but you're the one saying that, since I don't like the idea, I have to be against teamwork.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-06-2010, 09:18 PM
As someone who never PvPs, this is a horrible idea. My target subsystems abilties (as well as any other phaser-based power) alredy go into cooldown when I use one. Why should I lose other powers that have nothing to do with my phasers as well? I don't care about PvP, but this nerf doesn't only effect PvP. It would distinctly change the way PvE works as well, and for no good reason.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 13
12-07-2010, 12:30 AM
The current system cooldowns work:

- There is a system cooldown. Systems is stuff like Tractor Beam, Emitters, Weapon Modification, Maneuvers, Torpedoes and the like.
-There is a global cooldown for powers with the same name.
- There is an individual cooldown for the power itself.

There is no concept of "meta" cooldowns that link "stun" and "hold" powers together. Tractor Beam uses the Tractor Beam system, Photonic Shockwave uses... Emitters?, Eject Warp Plasma uses yet another system and so on.

Creating such a meta-system would probably be possible. But the current system is intentionally designed this way so that people can actually do stuff like stacking damage buffs, stacking heals and stacking crowd control powers.

But, all that said, your solution wouldn't promote teamwork. It's pretty much neutral to it.
If you load up your ship with holds or stuns, you're not the guy that will take down your enemy if he has team mates. If he has you might, depending on whether the other ship has counters. But if he has team mates, they will keep him alive, since you're not equipped with the type of powers to overcome shield,hull and all the healing going his way, and keep yourself alive. So, you need a team to keep you alive and get over the hull and healing of your enemies.

Whether every team member is loading up on stuns, heals, damage powers and holds, or one has all the stuns, one has all the heals, one has all the damage, and one has all the holds, doesn't matter. You still need to work together.

The current system also would be very much unsuited for this. In essence, Science Vessels are - by design - the class most likely to hold many hold and stun powers. While everyone else is less suited to do so. So you punish Science Vessel and make his role within the team weaker, as he can't actually provide what is expected from him. IN that way, you are most likely to reduce team diversity, as you force people to work without the stuns and holds since no one can effectively bring them anymore, and remove the science vessel as a ship to play in a team (or at all.)

Which is probably what you want all along. No more bad touch powers, right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-07-2010, 12:46 AM
As far as I can see none of your examples are actually holds in the classic sense. Merely stuns or snares...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-07-2010, 12:52 AM
The current system seriously favors a klingon science BoP over all other ship builds. I don't believe it was intentional or the devs fault, but is just a consequence of them following the QQ Klub's recommendations. It WAS intentional of the Klubs members, who probably are surprised Cryptic was lead about so easily.

I have PvP'd a LOT. So much so I can easily see the facts of the matter that some refuse to see and others don't want seen so they cloud the issue with slander and misinformation. No matter how many times they say it, they will not delude me into believing there is any balance in this game whatsoever. I realize this is confusing to them as obsessively repeating things is what got them their way all along. I am not as easily mislead.

The day you get socked by 3 BoPs hitting you with everything from SNB to a Tractor beam and you get instaganked only to be repeatedly killed on respawn by the campers is the day you will see what I'm talking about. Meanwhile keep PvPing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-07-2010, 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jedidethfreak View Post
No, I'm not against teamwork. I'm against punishing people who know how to PvP, while rewarding those who don't know how to PvP. There's a huge difference between being against teamwork and that, and your idea will do nothing to promote the former, while only doing the latter.
Sorry, but I have played serious PvP games and your attitude is indeed elitist and arrogant as all hell. PvP in this game is pointless to me since there is no risk/reward system in place but I can see the OP's point about the permahold. There are ways around it but that is forcing a FoTM instead of allowing differing playstyles. If Jedi is stating that he/she is incapable of PvP without the permahold, perhaps his/her own comment about L2PvP applies as well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-07-2010, 04:45 AM
The OP request is very reasonable, it would be consistent with how the teams are done I.E like when you use engineering team science team is temporarily unavailable.

This post has been edited to remove content which violates the Cryptic Studios Forum Usage Guidelines ~GM Tiyshen
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-07-2010, 05:55 AM
Quote:
Sorry, but I have played serious PvP games and your attitude is indeed elitist and arrogant as all hell. PvP in this game is pointless to me since there is no risk/reward system in place but I can see the OP's point about the permahold. There are ways around it but that is forcing a FoTM instead of allowing differing playstyles. If Jedi is stating that he/she is incapable of PvP without the permahold, perhaps his/her own comment about L2PvP applies as well.
To achieve any semblence of "perma-holds" in Space PvP, you already need a team. There is no way to chain holds for single players. The longest single-player hold comes from the Tri-Cobalt Mine, which isn't even a Bridge Officer Power. It lasts for 10 seconds. I think that is an ability that is overpowered.

You can be stunned by:
- Tricobalt Torpedo: 2 second or so
- Photonic Shockwave: 3 second or so
- Tricobalt Mine: 10 seconds.
PSW goes onto a lengthy cooldown after you used it, and Tri-Cobalts share cooldowns. Tri-Cobalt Mines have an activation delay (like all mines), and both Tri-Cobalts can be intercepted.

Hold Powers:
- Tractor Beam
- Viral Matrix
- Beam Target Subsystem Engines
- Boarding Party
- Eject Warp Plasma
- Gravity Well

Viral Matrix has only a chance to randomly hold you, and you can still do other stuff.
Beam Target Subsystem Engines only has a small chance of actually disabling your engines, othwerise it will merely slow you down.
Boarding Party has a chance to disable engines.
Eject Warp Plasma is "only" a slow.
Gravity Well also tends only to slow you down and you can escape.

All of these powers are usually not found on the same ship, as they require higher tier bridge officer slots and also often require a strong skill specialisation to make them work well.

If you get "perma-held" (stun or hold) in Space PvP, you are fighting a team that has specialized on perma-holding their enemies. A single player can't hold you all the time. Even if he kills you in the up to 10 seconds he might stun you, if you get back into the fight, he probably can't do it again for a while, and you have plenty of time to contribute yourself.

If you actually had a team that cooperated with you, you wouldn't even need to worry the 10 second stuns, as they would keep you alive in the mean-time. Now, if you are fighting a real team on the other side, too, of course it will provide advantages and give a way to win for them - but as part of your team yourself, you can also develop countertactics.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-07-2010, 06:14 AM
Don't waste your time Mustrum,you are trying to convince a zealot with facts that don't fit his worldview, & he will not (cannot?) listen The OP has refused to listen to reason in any of the threads he has hijacked to turn into no bad touch whinefests. OP has a history of this. just read any of his posts at random.Communication requires the Will to listen, And unless you agree with him, He is incapable of hearing you.
To anyone else reading this who agrees with the OP, the answer is easy.Stay out of PVP. Every BO ability in this game is much more effective when used by A thinking human, as opposed to a few lines of computer code.It doesn't take to long to figure out how to beat an AI. A REAL intelligence however, WILL sometimes be better than you.If this truth hurts, & makes you want to scream NERF, instead of encourage you to try harder, you are better off playing PVE.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-07-2010, 06:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thethanatos View Post
Sorry, but I have played serious PvP games and your attitude is indeed elitist and arrogant as all hell. PvP in this game is pointless to me since there is no risk/reward system in place but I can see the OP's point about the permahold. There are ways around it but that is forcing a FoTM instead of allowing differing playstyles. If Jedi is stating that he/she is incapable of PvP without the permahold, perhaps his/her own comment about L2PvP applies as well.
I don't use any holds whatsoever. I'm set up for pure damage output, and I do just fine. As a matter of fact, more often than not, I'm able to kill whomever is trying to set up a permahold before they're successful in putting the hold in place.

PROTIP: Setting up permaholds take time, and the people doing it are VERY easy to figure out. When you figure it out, call the target. Get the whole team to take him/her out. Then, every time he/she respawns, make him/her the primary target. It's hard to set up a permahold if he/she has to deal with five attackers at the same time every second of the match.
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