Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 STFs- Now I Understand
12-08-2010, 12:11 AM
I got to do the Cure with the revamp with a group I have very frequently done STFs with in the past. I must say, I finally understand why people were upset.

The Borg's aggressiveness seriously went up a notch in which they were spamming Borg Fuze Armor, Assmilation, you name it. Me playing the Doctor felt easily overwhelmed by all he injuries.

And need I talk about those infamous Gates? Talk about a headache.



All this time I thought people were having trouble because they were inexperienced, while the experienced moved on to Emblem Grinding. Boy was I wrong. This easily explains why so many were frustrated.

So Gozer my bud, I really hope you tone this down a notch back to original levels. Else people won't do STFs again. Because it won't be worth the frustration.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-08-2010, 01:49 AM
STFs are too hard.

There is equal difficulty now in both completing an STF mission and finding 4 people willing to attempt one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-08-2010, 02:14 AM
In general, bumping the difficulty up for existing content is a bad idea. You can always introduce new and harder content but it throws people off and makes them feel cheated when existing content becomes harder.

Also, while I can accept the idea of STFs as raiding, you really shouldn't have raiding in an MMO without first setting up "gearing up", "learning the ropes" dungeons or, in the language of WoW expansions "Heroic Dungeons". You're throwing someone who can't swim out into the ocean otherwise and the result is that, while some people make it, some don't and some people develop an aversion to the water.

All-in-all, I personally think STFs in-game should be nerfed way down and turned into more of an emblem farming training ground. Meanwhile, new STFs should be developed that, compared to the current STFs, should be:

- Shorter
- Less trash mobs
- Harder but with a gentle curve up
- Have meaningful loot/rewards as a drop to encourage repetition

Existing STFs should be:

- Shorter
- Easier
- Be a source of emblems/currency for gear that makes the harder STFs easier. That way, people who are good at the hard STFs finish first but everybody finishes eventually.

The standard thought is to do this through gear. The problem with that is that it leaves PvPers and casual players (in terms of repetition/grind) in the dust.

So here's my thought:

Create emblem purchasable ground sets. Each item equipped increases your effective level while in an STF. The gear itself is only medium quality, stat wise, like a Tier 12 blue.

Players who are good at STFs as they are will complete them first. They will complete them faster due to higher DPS.

Players who cannot complete STFs as they are can get the sets. Their chance of death is reduced. Their chance of success is increased. But because they're doing less DPS than the people who don't have the set, they can't race through in halfr an hour like a strong and experienced group could.

Piggybacking on the tech jheinig has been playing with, with class specific solutions, maybe you could introduce gear which places a buff on a player. This buff enables the player to use alternative tactics.

For example: I buy a kit with emblems.

The kit does okay DPS. Just okay.

The real perk of the kit is that it places a buff on me that opens up an option in Infected to mess with a console and "poison" Manus' power supply. Manus starts the fight at 75% health.

Someone else has an STF kit that gives them the option to reduce the health of the forcefield towers by 50%.

Someone else has a kit that does an AoE effect in STFs that prevents respawns for five minutes when activated.

It's a kit, right? Designed to make us prepared for missions? So why not have STF-specific kits? People who are THAT GOOD will plow through an STF without them but people who aren't as good can take their time grinding the kits. Everyone who wants to finish an STF eventually does but it may take another 2 months to be ready for it.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-08-2010, 07:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
In general, bumping the difficulty up for existing content is a bad idea. You can always introduce new and harder content but it throws people off and makes them feel cheated when existing content becomes harder.

Also, while I can accept the idea of STFs as raiding, you really shouldn't have raiding in an MMO without first setting up "gearing up", "learning the ropes" dungeons or, in the language of WoW expansions "Heroic Dungeons". You're throwing someone who can't swim out into the ocean otherwise and the result is that, while some people make it, some don't and some people develop an aversion to the water.

All-in-all, I personally think STFs in-game should be nerfed way down and turned into more of an emblem farming training ground. Meanwhile, new STFs should be developed that, compared to the current STFs, should be:

- Shorter
- Less trash mobs
- Harder but with a gentle curve up
- Have meaningful loot/rewards as a drop to encourage repetition

Existing STFs should be:

- Shorter
- Easier
- Be a source of emblems/currency for gear that makes the harder STFs easier. That way, people who are good at the hard STFs finish first but everybody finishes eventually.

The standard thought is to do this through gear. The problem with that is that it leaves PvPers and casual players (in terms of repetition/grind) in the dust.

So here's my thought:

Create emblem purchasable ground sets. Each item equipped increases your effective level while in an STF. The gear itself is only medium quality, stat wise, like a Tier 12 blue.

Players who are good at STFs as they are will complete them first. They will complete them faster due to higher DPS.

Players who cannot complete STFs as they are can get the sets. Their chance of death is reduced. Their chance of success is increased. But because they're doing less DPS than the people who don't have the set, they can't race through in halfr an hour like a strong and experienced group could.

Piggybacking on the tech jheinig has been playing with, with class specific solutions, maybe you could introduce gear which places a buff on a player. This buff enables the player to use alternative tactics.

For example: I buy a kit with emblems.

The kit does okay DPS. Just okay.

The real perk of the kit is that it places a buff on me that opens up an option in Infected to mess with a console and "poison" Manus' power supply. Manus starts the fight at 75% health.

Someone else has an STF kit that gives them the option to reduce the health of the forcefield towers by 50%.

Someone else has a kit that does an AoE effect in STFs that prevents respawns for five minutes when activated.

It's a kit, right? Designed to make us prepared for missions? So why not have STF-specific kits? People who are THAT GOOD will plow through an STF without them but people who aren't as good can take their time grinding the kits. Everyone who wants to finish an STF eventually does but it may take another 2 months to be ready for it.
Great points. Great ideas. Something certainly needs to be done. Clearly these are currently a disaster. I'm also now, in the last few days to a week, experiencing bugs on Infected and Cure maps I've never had before, bugs that force me to exit the game and rejoin. Not at all fun or helpful to anyone considering the near impossible task of just finding people willing to do them.

My fear is cryptic has the idea that the new gear will shut people up simply because there is something to get for your ship... but that does nothing to address the problems that are inherint in the missions.

Once people begin in earnest to try to do these for this new gear, I expect the complaints to rise significantly. At least of course until apathy takes hold.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-08-2010, 08:23 AM
i suppose ill be the bad duck and say im not experiencing problems
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-08-2010, 08:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bugshu View Post
STFs are too hard.

There is equal difficulty now in both completing an STF mission and finding 4 people willing to attempt one.
understand this problem..Get with a FLEET that does them on a regular basis..Pug groups in a STF are really hard to control and everyones tactics are different..so that said, a pug group will always make a long day with a STF..Best bet..find a fleet that uses Vent or Teampeak..then play a STF..its more fun than a barrel of fried monkey TAILS !
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-08-2010, 09:02 AM
Normally, I would agree with you that you're better off with Fleets than PuGs. But like I said in the OP, I was with a group I had the pleasure of grouping litterally dozens of times in the original STFs. We got so good that we ended up doing the old Cure in 45 minutes. But unfortunately the same could not be said with the new Cure.

We were doing it at the RA level at Normal Difficulty, which should've been a cake-walk, but it ended up being quite a frustrating encounter. If anything, what we encountered would've been perfect for the Elite Difficulty version of an STF. Mobs moving faster and using more abilities. But for regular and normal play, its overkill. This is why I had to make a thread questioning it.


So hopefully Gozer's planned revamps of the STF, these things are addressed and the STFs become fun again than something you want to pull your hair out over.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-08-2010, 09:16 AM
Infected is the only one I like playing...that said, I still don't know how to consistently beat Rebecca...seems to be random in whether or not the team can get her trapped or do enough DPS to kill her.

I can lead a team of 4 newbies through it successfully...until we get to Rebecca...then I have no idea what to do.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-08-2010, 09:33 AM
Gozer has said in another thread he is working on a difficulty slider for the STFs, with the current level equaling elite.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-08-2010, 09:38 AM
No offense, but the STFs are fine as they are. In case I got to remind people again, Gozer already said that STFs are SUPPOSED to be very hard because the rewards will be well worth it. I know why you people want the STFs to be as easy as the rest of STO; you want to quickly pocket the Borg set items.

PuGs are usually bad for STFs, so try to stick with people that you know well and that you play with a lot. Take your time on the various parts of the STFs, charging in like a halfwitted moron doesn't work very well in STFs. And before you start with your "I don't do that" excuses let me know that after my PuGing.... most people actually do and can't be arsed to listen to any type of tactics or advice from the teamleader.

There are chokepoints in several of the STFs but you can overcome them with PROPER timing, tactics and TEAMWORK. See the words in the big fonts? Those are actually important for STFs.

In my opinion, the next STFs should keep the difficulty level as is from the current ones and they should be expanded with a few more big bossfights, but... in my opinion every bossfight needs it's own instance so when people need to leave or when people don't want to go on anymore, they can pick up where the group left the STF. Would solve a lot of frustrations imo.

But please guys, quit crying nerf and OP on the STFs, just team up with a few proper players.
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