Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 21
12-08-2010, 01:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
Excuse me, but did you actually read what I said?

I clearly said I was grouped with individuals who I did STFs literally dozens of times with and we were so good than we did the Cure in 45 minutes. So we very much knew what we were doing, thank you very much.

What we experienced was not fun at all and I hate to imagine how bad PuGs have it. It's no wonder hardly anyone does STFs anymore.




And don't diss PuGs, this is how people got to know one another and become friends. In fact, Cryptic would be wise to make more such zones (minus the insane difficulty) and encourge more socalizing than having people to get in fleets of people they don't know in order to do stuff.
Funny, tried them with fleeties and they've gotten easier in fact. We're just gnawing through Cure again now, but most of us have been out of the running for so long that we're still lvling up new toons and gearing them up properly. The only changes we've seen was that nodes suddenly got smacked in the middle of plain sight with one exception in Infected.

We generally 3-man Infected and it's easy as pie. Cure... ah still the same chokepoints I won't deny that, but... change tactics from the normal "brute" force method, use appropriate weapons (repel repel and more repel for the worker drones). Kits... they make one heck of a difference here also.

Why am I dissing PuGs? Simple; there's a few good players out there, majority... well let's just say that their idea of a tactical advance in a drone heavy battle is to run in with a Bat'leth and then stand there and wonder why the heck they're being ***** by a bunch of Infected Drones/Drones/Medical Drones... yes and I'm even painting a fairly good picture actually... some of them are just plain jokers.

Are all PuGs bad? No and truth be told, it's rather easy to pick them out most of the time. If someone suddenly says: "I've done this a million times and you don't have to explain anything to me" that's when you're usually in a sh*tload of trouble. If someone says "I've done it a few times already" that's when you can be pretty sure you'll get it done.

The STF difficulty isn't the issue at all... I'm smelling a lot more of threads like this jumping up once Season 3 is launched. Would I cry if they actually did nerf the STFs? No but then I'd be willing to bet with you that people will suddenly put up whine threads stating that STFs are too easy and that they're bored because they're out of things to do, yada yada yada.

In the end, it all depends on how you roll with it I guess, but apart from Terradome (bugsywugsy place) I personally have no issues with the STFs.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
12-08-2010, 01:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Spartan View Post
The thing is the guy who made them quit Cryptic. From what I know (correct me if I'm wrong) He only recently came back now that Z is gone. He is supposedly working on the other STF which he did not finish before leaving the company. After he left Cryptic basically abandoned STFs as a core experience element for STO.
Gozer has been working on all the STF's since coming back. Just look in the Tribble forums about the recent bug fixes. He's been posting there, and is planning on having a playthrough on all of them to make sure they are working as intended.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 23
12-08-2010, 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinumbar
Gozer has been working on all the STF's since coming back. Just look in the Tribble forums about the recent bug fixes. He's been posting there, and is planning on having a playthrough on all of them to make sure they are working as intended.
Yep. It would nice if he articulated his design philosophy to the community and ran some test groups with players and had AAR after runs -etc.. Basically increasing his presence tempo within the community at large. Additionally, for what it is worth, I think STFs should get a dedicated forum. I think it would go a long way is showing people things are afoot so to speak. It would also cut down on a lot of complain threads in this forum as well as the Feedback forum. Speaking of which, I think both of those forums should be merged.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 24
12-08-2010, 01:44 PM
I dislike the STFs. They feel too much like a raid.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 25
12-08-2010, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meynolt View Post
Funny, tried them with fleeties and they've gotten easier in fact. We're just gnawing through Cure again now, but most of us have been out of the running for so long that we're still lvling up new toons and gearing them up properly. The only changes we've seen was that nodes suddenly got smacked in the middle of plain sight with one exception in Infected.

We generally 3-man Infected and it's easy as pie. Cure... ah still the same chokepoints I won't deny that, but... change tactics from the normal "brute" force method, use appropriate weapons (repel repel and more repel for the worker drones). Kits... they make one heck of a difference here also.

Why am I dissing PuGs? Simple; there's a few good players out there, majority... well let's just say that their idea of a tactical advance in a drone heavy battle is to run in with a Bat'leth and then stand there and wonder why the heck they're being ***** by a bunch of Infected Drones/Drones/Medical Drones... yes and I'm even painting a fairly good picture actually... some of them are just plain jokers.

Are all PuGs bad? No and truth be told, it's rather easy to pick them out most of the time. If someone suddenly says: "I've done this a million times and you don't have to explain anything to me" that's when you're usually in a sh*tload of trouble. If someone says "I've done it a few times already" that's when you can be pretty sure you'll get it done.

The STF difficulty isn't the issue at all... I'm smelling a lot more of threads like this jumping up once Season 3 is launched. Would I cry if they actually did nerf the STFs? No but then I'd be willing to bet with you that people will suddenly put up whine threads stating that STFs are too easy and that they're bored because they're out of things to do, yada yada yada.

In the end, it all depends on how you roll with it I guess, but apart from Terradome (bugsywugsy place) I personally have no issues with the STFs.
There was more changes than nodes my dear. Mobs actually respawn, which never happened in the original. And Borg use of abilities was not constant spam. Seems like I was getting hit with Fuze armor and Shield Nullifiers every second. Lets of course drones using assmiliation twice in a row.

And yes there are some questional people in a PuG, but you can have such an experience in a Fleet as well. But doesn't matter if you are in a fleet or a PuG, the longer you socialize with someone and group witih them, you get to know them better and know their tactics.


As for Season 3, I won't doubt it. STFs supposed to be fun, not frustrating. There are ways to challenge people in MMOs without NPC Spam or players being rushed by a group of tough enemies.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 26
12-08-2010, 02:03 PM
yeah, I've given up on those STFs cuz they're a pain in the @$$ with little or no reward. it's gonna take some major changes to wanna do any more again
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 27
12-08-2010, 02:07 PM
@Azurian - Dont forget about the very short timers on things.

Anyway, I think if the number of NPCs was reduced by about 25% and the timers increased by the same factor, players across the board would not have many issues and the all would be PUG friendly. I would also suggest breaking them up into at least two of each current STF with a reward for each part to further promote players doing them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
12-08-2010, 02:13 PM
my view there is a fine line between

being a challenge

and

being a grind.

having to work out different puzzles and being clever to drop a boss = a challenge

trawling through wave after wave of trash mobs = a grind.

currently stfs are more of the latter than the former.

ive not done them after spending 3+ hours in terradome and not being able to complete it due to the "lets throw thousands of mobs at you" mentality in design.

as such i feel im missing out on a big part of the game because they just arnt fun, why do somthing that isnt fun ?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 29
12-08-2010, 04:23 PM
While we're on the topic of ridiculous missions that need fixing, I personally found Cure Terradome and infected beatable. Khitomer is still impossible and IMO they really need to fix the Fluidic space fleet action and Crystalline Entity!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 30
12-08-2010, 04:35 PM
Most games with raiding seem to have a steeper gear curve and the option to power through on skill or plow through on gear, either gear you grind for or gear that starts to come out after a raid is older.

The big problem with the gear or skill curve is that it winds up making PvE gear dominate in PvP or creating new PvP only stats, like resistance in WoW (which can reverse things if done improperly and make PvP gear dominate in PvE).

My solution, as I said before, is to introduce grindable gear with special effects that make an STF easier.

That way, it's largely gear you'd only use in one STF and doesn't clutter up progression otherwise with "welfare" gear or create PvP issues.

What do you think about the idea of emblem gear with special effects like, say, disables Rebecca Simmons' special ability for two minutes on a 30 minute cooldown? Or, autokills one forcefield generator? It would be just okay otherwise (nothing great) but if you're having trouble, you do a lot of dailies for four weeks, get the Infected-specific gear and let the gear substitute for your skill, knowing you'll have to repeat this process for every STF because the gear is basically just a situational thing for people who need that extra boost. (And skilled players still do it first and do it faster because their Mark 12 gear does better DPS.)

It just seems to me there's a huge emphasis on skill here when far more hardcore games than STO give you a choice between farming gear that can take the place of skill.

You get that "gear or skill" choice in far less casual games whereas these STFs seem to be "skill and coordination or GTFO".
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