Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 11
12-12-2010, 05:03 AM
I thing the Ferengie are still neutral; Drozana proves that. So why not giving them to the KDF?

I remember a while ago there was a whole Ferengie Fleet wich wantet that; they finally left the game, I guess because they felt kind of ignored.

The Idea was to add the Ferengie Marauder, too, for both fractions, with the race, as kind of a cross fraction.

To the Pakleds... they neighter belong into the Federation nor into the Empire; it is a wonader that they are capable of of flying a ship at all. I do not see a Pakled suceeding at Starfleet Academie and become an Officer in "real" canon.... and well the KDF has Nausicans.... so well their chance here might be a little better.... but they are still Idiots and should be NPC encounters at best.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
12-12-2010, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
I thing the Ferengie are still neutral; Drozana proves that.
"The Gorn convince the Nausicaans to sign a non-aggression pact with the Klingons, while the Ferengi continue making trade agreements with the Federation. The lines of alliance are being clearly drawn."
- Path to 2409

Drozana is likely independent from any faction. That, or this particular Ferengi thinks he can continue to play both factions without the threat of simply being annexed by one of the warring parties once the conflict escalates. (truth be told, I wouldn't read too much into it, it likely was a gameplay decision without much background consideration)

In any case, the Orions are going for economic domination of the Klingon Empire right now, and Melani D'ian has a better position with the Great Houses than any Ferengi could ever hope for. Do you think the Syndicate would sit by whilst a member of a species they both dislike and stand in competition with decides to interfer with their business?
And besides, the current limitations of gameplay would still mean that a Ferengi would end up being a soldier in the KDF. I can't see any Ferengi doing this. It's simply too dangerous and not profitable. There are only two kinds of Ferengi - the capitalists who sit back and let others do the dirty work, and the new idealists who end up in Starfleet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
The Idea was to add the Ferengie Marauder, too, for both fractions, with the race, as kind of a cross fraction.
I'd really prefer a neutral faction of "Independents" at some point for all those people who want to play traders, smugglers, mercenaries etc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 13
12-17-2010, 02:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
"The Gorn convince the Nausicaans to sign a non-aggression pact with the Klingons, while the Ferengi continue making trade agreements with the Federation. The lines of alliance are being clearly drawn."
- Path to 2409
Of course the Ferengie are making trade agreements with the Federation. They are Ferengie....
That doesnt mean the "lines of alliance are clearly drawn". After all, war is good for business!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Drozana is likely independent from any faction. That, or this particular Ferengi thinks he can continue to play both factions without the threat of simply being annexed by one of the warring parties once the conflict escalates. (truth be told, I wouldn't read too much into it, it likely was a gameplay decision without much background consideration)
Well I thats one of the "gameplay decisions" I actually liked. Simply because it shows how the Ferengie work: neutral.
But since obviously some Ferengie chose to take the Federation side I dont see why some shouldnt take the Klingons one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
In any case, the Orions are going for economic domination of the Klingon Empire right now, and Melani D'ian has a better position with the Great Houses than any Ferengi could ever hope for. Do you think the Syndicate would sit by whilst a member of a species they both dislike and stand in competition with decides to interfer with their business?
When has been established that Orions do not like Ferengie?
True, the Orions have a.... bigger intrest in business then any other part of the Klingon... alliance.... but business with the Ferengie still can bring advantages.
Excluding business-partners with influence from the economie ist simply not the way "business" works, they would try to take benefits from trade with the Ferengie and hope to get "better" benefits from it then the Ferengie .


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
And besides, the current limitations of gameplay would still mean that a Ferengi would end up being a soldier in the KDF. I can't see any Ferengi doing this. It's simply too dangerous and not profitable. There are only two kinds of Ferengi - the capitalists who sit back and let others do the dirty work, and the new idealists who end up in Starfleet.
Well thats a point, but I thing the "benefits" of adding the Ferengie to the KDF, especially for role players, would outweight that "problem" by far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
I'd really prefer a neutral faction of "Independents" at some point for all those people who want to play traders, smugglers, mercenaries etc.
Well... yes and no. Basicly i kind of like that Idea, IF it is well done.... but there are A LOT of arguments against that.
- Adding a new faction is a bad Idea right now, because.... lets face it... STO does not have that much players. To spread them into even more factions where they cant work together would not improve the gameplay and might even mean the end of the game.
- Adding a new faction would mean the need of a lot of content for it.... and that would mean less content for the others,..... and most likley, the way Crytic works, especially less new content for the Klingons.
- That whole "independent faction" simply doesnt have a that big rule in the Star Trek universe. Most fans in the game would -if- prefer to see a real Star Trek faction like Romulans or Cardassians.... even the Borg. And since it is a Star Trek game they are simply right.
- There is not much Canon stuff for such a faction. What would that faction use? As Ship... the Marauder, thats basicly it. What else? Some pirates ect used Klingon ships they bought at the black market... But if those would be addet a lot of would cry since they are "klingon content" and ask why fed ships - wich wouldnt fit into that faction - are not there. The next for that faction would be nausican and orion stuff, that is, also already part of the Klingon faction.
And thats, in my opinion, the whold point... with Nausicans and Orions that "neutral" faction more or less is already in the game, as klingon content.
And I do not thing that this is a bad idea, because, serieously.... the Klingons are not THAT important in Star Trek. Beside the Dominion war... and Worf we didnt see them THAT often in the series.... true they had a bigger in the Movies.... but they are not much more but an extendet version of the "Alien of the week".
You also see that in regards to the content. I mean: People are asking for more Klingon content, but in ships and clothes, what is there left to add for them? A t5 K'tinga, the K'Vort.... may be some dated Enterprise ships (d5 and early BoP) and thats it. Clothes? I heared suggestions for 2 suits wich would be exclusive female, THATS IT. Cryptic CANT even bring the C-Store stuff en par with the Federations because there is simply not much left anyway.
I mean I know some want to keep "that unique feeling" but that means "no progress".
Adding that "neutral faction" parts to the Klingon faction would simply give room for Content. Its already happening (remember that just TWO of the 4, soon 5, retrofit ships is actually Klingon).
And adding more neutral stuff might get some new players to the klingon faction, too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 14
12-17-2010, 07:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Of course the Ferengie are making trade agreements with the Federation. They are Ferengie.... That doesnt mean the "lines of alliance are clearly drawn". After all, war is good for business!
Hey, I'm just quoting how it is in STO. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Well I thats one of the "gameplay decisions" I actually liked. Simply because it shows how the Ferengie work: neutral.
That was before the current Grand Nagus, who - as you may remember - has very close ties to the Federation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
When has been established that Orions do not like Ferengie?
Oh, that's "only" soft canon - I still took it for granted, though, as it fits their depiction in hard canon and the goals they have in STO as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
There is not much Canon stuff for such a faction. What would that faction use? As Ship... the Marauder, thats basicly it. What else?
Actually, there have been quite a lot of civilian ships aside from that one. The Ju'day-Raider, the Antares-class, or all those unnamed kitbashes that only appeared in one episode. I also like STOs "Federation Courier" design. Not that I doubt Cryptic could come up with some cool new designs of its own.
The options are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
And thats, in my opinion, the whold point... with Nausicans and Orions that "neutral" faction more or less is already in the game, as klingon content.
And that is part of the problem. They have already diluted the KDF into not becoming "the Klingons" but rather a "Klingon Alliance". I just don't think this faction should go the Federation way, as that is a defining feature as well. Six races are more than enough, and I'm not even counting Liberated Borg or all those Generic Aliens here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
I mean: People are asking for more Klingon content, but in ships and clothes, what is there left to add for them? A t5 K'tinga, the K'Vort.... may be some dated Enterprise ships (d5 and early BoP) and thats it. Clothes? I heared suggestions for 2 suits wich would be exclusive female, THATS IT. Cryptic CANT even bring the C-Store stuff en par with the Federations because there is simply not much left anyway.
Are you serious? Check the Klingon wishlist thread. :p

Ships? There's about 30 gaps to fill on all tiers for all the non-Klingon species. Clothes? More than a dozen suggestions on our wishlist. KDF C-Store doesn't fail because of nothing being left to make, but because of the developers not thinking it would pay off.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 15
12-17-2010, 07:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DecadeComplete
These Species I believe should be Cross Faction for this game because of how we know of them and their history within the franchise.

Sure we're in the middle of a war here. But I mean KDF pretty much has Open Door Policy like UFP.

So why not? It will give the KDF more species to play with and stuff like that?

Can I get a Hell Yeah?
Hell no! I don't want those fat ugly buggers and the gold grabbing Ferengi in the Empire! There's plenty of races out there that can bring more to the table then those 2 worthless species.

-> Tholians
-> Breen
-> ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 16
12-17-2010, 01:13 PM
Please no. The only way a ferengi should be on a KDF ship is skinned and hung from the bulkhead.
They are too frail and cowardly to stand and fight and the pakleds are too slow. A predominately warrior race would never have let either one survive training.

Both races should have remained as either NPCs or a neutral faction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
12-18-2010, 03:01 AM
We have some standards.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 18
12-20-2010, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Hey, I'm just quoting how it is in STO. :p

That was before the current Grand Nagus, who - as you may remember - has very close ties to the Federation.
Even a "current" Grand Nagus Rom cant change what Ferengie simply are. And I'm not Familiar with the Ferengie society that much, but I do not believe that there is no way to Replace a Nagus that works against the basic believes of the Ferengie. (And if there is no legal way, even a Nagus can have an "Accident") .Sticking with one side simply does that. It lowers Profit. Since Rom IS Nagus he cant hold that cause of action with 100 %.

But on the other hand, the Cryptic writers already prooved with Cardassians joining forces with Jem Hadar after the Cardassian genouide or Orions in alliance with Klingons that the simply have no Idea how things work in star trek, I dont believe they even watched the Series. Or they simply do not understand it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Oh, that's "only" soft canon - I still took it for granted, though, as it fits their depiction in hard canon and the goals they have in STO as well.
There is no such thing as "soft canon" or "hard canon". There is just canon. That is everything seen oncreen (series and movies). Everything else is simply NOT Canon.
Of course non-canon stuff can be includet.... thats welcome if it is good (like the Luna Class wich is kind of nice... ) but it isnt really a scale.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Actually, there have been quite a lot of civilian ships aside from that one. The Ju'day-Raider, the Antares-class, or all those unnamed kitbashes that only appeared in one episode. I also like STOs "Federation Courier" design. Not that I doubt Cryptic could come up with some cool new designs of its own.
The options are there.
Well most ships you name, JuDay Raider or the "Federation Courier", are not neutral, they are, like the "Federation Courier" says, Federation ships. They were used by groups like the Marquis because that groups had federation Orgins. And those are basicly small ships, they can keep up witch a Runabout but with a Souverign?

And Cryptics Designs are, in my Opinion (wich is shared by A LOT of people I know from the game) with 99% crap. I personally like the Hegh'ta BoP but thats the only one I even can look at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
And that is part of the problem. They have already diluted the KDF into not becoming "the Klingons" but rather a "Klingon Alliance". I just don't think this faction should go the Federation way, as that is a defining feature as well. Six races are more than enough, and I'm not even counting Liberated Borg or all those Generic Aliens here.

Are you serious? Check the Klingon wishlist thread. :p

Ships? There's about 30 gaps to fill on all tiers for all the non-Klingon species. Clothes? More than a dozen suggestions on our wishlist. KDF C-Store doesn't fail because of nothing being left to make, but because of the developers not thinking it would pay off.
I personally thing it SHOULD have gone the Federation way from the beginning. In my opinion Federation and Klingon should be one fraction as an Alliance, and the othe Faction should be something lilke the Typhon Pact with Romulans, Cardassians ect. Again: I thing we have to little players after all to fill more then 2 fractions. And THAT would make more content for both possible. And it would give the Klingon Empire much more dignity to work with a "honorable" and proben "friend" like the ferderation then working with scump like Orions and Nausicans. The Klingon Alliance doesnt fit, but its to late, its their and we have to live with it.

To the wishlist: a said KLINGON content not Klingon Alliance content. Most suggestions, beside the ones I mentioned, are non canon Klingon ships wich are as ugly as Crypics designs or Alliance ships, wich was my whole point in the first place: Orions and Nausicans ARE what I would consider part of a Neutral fraction. The most possioble content on Klingon side is for them. So we do not need another, independet Merchant/smuggler ect ect fraction.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 19
12-20-2010, 09:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Even a "current" Grand Nagus Rom cant change what Ferengie simply are.
So you want Rogue Ferengi? By that reasoning there can be no preferrence to this species, though, and you can add any canon species to the KDF. Even Romulans. :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
But on the other hand, the Cryptic writers already prooved with Cardassians joining forces with Jem Hadar after the Cardassian genouide or Orions in alliance with Klingons that the simply have no Idea how things work in star trek, I dont believe they even watched the Series. Or they simply do not understand it.
I disagree. The True Way Cardassians are, for one, an extremist faction. Secondly, their pact is an alliance of convenience, not mutual friendship. Thirdly, the Jem'hadar were merely semi-enslaved pawns of the Dominion and - unlike the Founders or the Breen - had nothing to say about how the war was conducted and, consequently, no true responsibility. Of course some Cardassians may feel otherwise, but that's not to say that the True Way as an organization is able to look past this for personal gain.

And as for the Klingons and the Orions - actually, they do have a long standing relationship in soft-canon. I've copypasted some of the old RPG fluff into an Orion guide here. It was recently backed up by the ENT episode "Borderland" which established that the Orion Colonies and the Klingon Empire do share a border.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
There is no such thing as "soft canon" or "hard canon". There is just canon.
Well, then we are left with common sense. It doesn't take that much to see the glaring differences between Ferengi and Orion approaches on trade - as well as the destructive rivalry that would result from this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Well most ships you name, JuDay Raider or the "Federation Courier", are not neutral, they are, like the "Federation Courier" says, Federation ships. They were used by groups like the Marquis because that groups had federation Orgins. And those are basicly small ships, they can keep up witch a Runabout but with a Souverign?
Well, this depends on what this neutral faction is supposed to do. Should it mirror the governmental ones in firepower? I say no. I'd leave it for people who want to trade, smuggle, craft and privateer.
As for the ships, it should probably be mentioned that they would appear "elsewhere" simply because the Federation is so large and produces so many of them. They are freely available for people outside the Federation, so why not use them? We even have examples of independents using Birds-of-Prey purchased on the black market so it's not hard to see what else could be employed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
To the wishlist: a said KLINGON content not Klingon Alliance content.
Uhh, you said content for the faction as it is - this includes the non-Klingon species. The KDF isn't Starfleet, it does not need and should not have as many different Klingon ship classes.
How does the situation get "better" by introducing yet another non-Klingon species, anyways?
Even if you leave out all those possible ships that a -lot- of KDF players are asking for, there's still the clothes. So the ideas are there.

And no, Orions as a faction are not neutral anymore, just like the Gorn. That's like saying the Klingons were neutral in the Dominion War.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 20
12-22-2010, 12:58 PM
I've got Pakled BO candidates sitting in my inventory... I'd be happy to trade them off for nearly any other race if Cryptic would let me. You can have 'em. I sure don't want 'em.

(Pakled Sci officers? Ugh, give me a break! It makes me want to hurl!)
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