Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Heavy beam arrays?
12-13-2010, 08:06 AM
First, a little trek science. The longer a beam array strip, the more emitters it has. The power of a shot from a phaser beam arrays depends on the size of the strip, and how many emitters on the strip were used to pre charge the shot. Thatís the glow before the shot you see on the show.

Many of the canon ships in the game sport nice larger arrays. They are large for a reason! Most of the cryptic ships lack any sort of large strips. Most were just tacked on as an afterthought by the looks of it. Unfortunately the ship designers didnít get the hint. Strips that small could deal only a tiny fraction of the damage a long array on a galaxy class could for example. In fact, Iíve seen number crunching in various trek forum discussions about phaser arrays that conclude a full power shot from the main arrays on a galaxy class is by far the most powerful energy weapon on any Starfleet ship, illustrated in Q who. please disregard generations. that 1 shot should have shot through that bird of prey, and the bird of prey behind it. None of the sovís arrays are long enough to compete with the galaxies ether, regardless if its emitters are a bit more powerful. It does have a slight edge in torpedo firepower though. Ok so now Iíve probably bored most of you with trek babble so Iíll get on with what I mean to talk about.

Seeing as dual cannons come in 2 different flavors, Iíd like to see a beam array variant in the same vein. The heavy beam array (or whatever you want to call it) would fire a single beam instead of 4 during its firing cycle but have the same dps as an equivalent beam array. The same idea as dual cannons and heavy dual cannons basically. This weapon should be limited only to tier 3 cruisers, escorts or science ship and up, if they have arrays long enough. The advanced heavy cruiser (excelsior) would not be able to use them seeing as it only has small array segments. (why did the centaur get larger more modern strips but the full size excelsior did not?)

There may be some issues. A critical will really hurt, and a beam overload would hit harder than a dual beam bank. Limiting its arc wouldnít make sense, regardless of balance issues. Maybe turn the power drain up a bit? It would basically be limited to fed ships too, seeing as Klingons donít use long arrays. As a tradeoff, dual beam banks donít look retarded being fired from a Klingon ship! The sight of 2 beams coming from the rim of a saucer makes my skin crawl! It looks so wrong, and itís just about the only option for cruisers that want to do any spike damage.

Only a forward firing arc would make sense in most cases. Except for maybe the galaxy. Weapon hardpoints on the back of the tier 5 galaxyís main array for this weapon would be cool, some over the shoulder shots from its main guns. I know the saucer pet has hardpoints there.

Along with this weapons debut, a lot of ship models need overhauling. Those afterthought front strips on a lot of ship costumes need some love. Also, Iím not asking for an elaborate glow before fire animation, that would probably be impossible unless it was built into the core game engine. Hit fire, a 1 second delay with a charge sound effect, then the beam fires, and then the cool down. Good enough! If they want to make this game more trek, this would be the perfect first step, imo.

tl;dr cliff notes

-instead of fired 4 times in a cycle, it is fired once, or twice

-it has the SAME dps as an equivalent beam array. just like the dual canons and dual heavy cannons have the same dps

-it is limited to forward arcs

-it has the same 250 deg firing arc as an equivalent beam array

-dual beam banks firing from the rim of a cruiser saucer looks RETARDED when there is a great big beam array just sitting there unused. dual beam banks firing from most fed escorts and all klingon ships looks fine

-the visual charge up effect would be to hard to make and is not needed, maybe a slight delay before the beam fires with a short charge sound

-its more trek
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-13-2010, 08:09 AM
um.... I like the idea in principle, but cruisers are not spike damage specialist, and they shouldn't be
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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# 3
12-13-2010, 08:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
um.... I like the idea in principle, but cruisers are not spike damage specialist, and they shouldn't be
that's not really the point. any ship should basically be able to use them, except like the excelsior and defiant and tier 1 and 2 ships. i mostly was thinking how fun an advanced escort would be with them
Lt. Commander
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# 4
12-13-2010, 08:16 AM
Still, beams aren't spike weapons. If you want a beam weapon that hits harder, then cannons are going to be displaced on escorts. Normal BeamArrays will stop being used period. Unless the Heavy Beam arrays are limited to T4-T5 cruisers.
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# 5
12-13-2010, 08:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavilier210 View Post
Still, beams aren't spike weapons. If you want a beam weapon that hits harder, then cannons are going to be displaced on escorts. Normal BeamArrays will stop being used period. Unless the Heavy Beam arrays are limited to T4-T5 cruisers.
dual cannons are still going to do a ton more damage. what i'm proposing dose not have higher dps then a regular beam array. also, since no ship has any large arrays aft, the heavy beam arrays would be forward only and regular beam array would still be mounted aft. also, beams are absolutely, positively spike weapons and always have been. beam overload in any form is what i think of when i think spike
Lt. Commander
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# 6
12-13-2010, 08:57 AM
Okee dokee, here are my thoughts:

LOVE the concept, but I think your over complicating the idea with too much 'canon'. Meaning simply that if you would want something like this in the game, it should be available at ALL levels, just like the Dual Heavy Cannons, and available to Klingon cruisers as well.

THAT way, there is still enough canon to make sense (Only cruisers could logically have enough power to use them, just as DHC can only be used by Escorts), but not enough to over complicate things.

Now just like DHCs, it would have to litterally be the SAME DPS as a standard Beam Array, just shoot ONE sustained beam, instead of 4. Making it appear to be firing MUCH slower. Also, for added flavor, I think the beam should 'charge' in between shots, with a nice sharp humm that increases in pitch as it gets closer to firing. So potentially, it could do higher crits, and a Beam Overload would be DEVISTATING with this array... but no more devistating than an escort using DHCs and Scatter Volley.

The drawback... should be (as you said) a weapon power drain of -12 instead of 10, and because it fires at a much slower rate (one beam 'pulse', instead of the standard 4 in a normal beam array), the enemy has more time to heal their shields, and perform more abilities between shots. Although the difference is litterally in 1 second incriments, over time it adds up.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-13-2010, 09:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
dual cannons are still going to do a ton more damage. what i'm proposing dose not have higher dps then a regular beam array. also, since no ship has any large arrays aft, the heavy beam arrays would be forward only and regular beam array would still be mounted aft. also, beams are absolutely, positively spike weapons and always have been. beam overload in any form is what i think of when i think spike
I kinda see what your getting at now, using a higher powered single shot beam array over a multiple shot per cycle array.

I think the problem is that since both types have the same DPS it needs to have a distinct advantage to off set the possibility of a miss doing no damage per firing cycle, where as in a normal beam array (i believe, mostly escort guy here) has multiple chances to hit in a single firing cycle.

For instance if it had a higher chance to proc, maybe 5 percent over 2.5, I could see having to really chose between the two beam types.
Lt. Commander
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# 8
12-13-2010, 01:48 PM
I would go with fire 2 twice in a cycle instead of 1. I has to put a little pressure on a ship to heal itself. A multi beam overload would be nice sort of like HYT, each beam does less damage per shot but has a higher chance to crit.
Lt. Commander
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# 9
12-13-2010, 02:45 PM
Is there any canon (or even "soft canon") that explicitly says that longer phaser array = stronger blast?

I looked at memory alpha and I can't see anything like that. When the Defiant was fighting with the Lakota, O'Brien commented that it had an awfully lot of fire power for an Excelsior. It didn't have any phaser strips and was using the same emitter layout as any other Excelsior. The emitters themselves may have been replaced to an improved design, or maybe the power grid of that ship was upgraded to accomate higher power transfers.

I figured the strips and increased number of emitters would simply decrease the number of firing blind spots, not inherently increase the power of the phaser. And if no source claims a long strip = stronger phaser correlation, then what was that "number crunching" based on?


Gameplay wise, I don't see the need of coming up with a stronger array type.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-13-2010, 03:09 PM
I think the actual argument here is Logic vs. Game-play.

Based on Logic, there should be heavy beam arrays and they should only be available on larger ships as per the OP.

Based on game-play, a heavy beam array would displace the cannon and throw off the balance of the weapons.

Since this is a game, I would have to side with game-play though I would prefer that logic would prevail. You can play a game that defies logic but if there is no game-play, you cannot play the game regardless of how logical it is.
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